Before I start the post, I’ll share this odd discovery I made today about Ella Enchanted and Fairest. I’ve started work, as I think I mentioned, on another book in Ella’s world, and ogres come into it in a major way, so I’ve looked back at the other books, in which there are ogres, albeit less prominently. Ella spends two chapters with the creatures but with no description except that they’re hairy, and females are a little shorter than males. What are they wearing? Are they… er… wearing nothing? In Fairest, in which the ogre encounter is briefer, a female has a scrap of red ribbon in her hair. That’s it. In Ella at least there should have been something. No one has ever complained, but tomorrow someone will. Or I already have.
Further proof for all of us that a piece of writing is always flawed. We do the best we can. We strive for perfection while knowing that the effort is doomed–in a good way, because the best we can do is worthy.
And something else. Please read or listen to this poem by John Updike, which is about getting through a novel and which reminds me of you guys who participate in NaNoWriMo. Here’s the link: http://writersalmanac.org/episodes/20160507/?htm_campaign=TWA%20Newsletter%20for%20May%207%2c%202016&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Eloqua&utm_content=The%20Writer%27s%20Almanac%20for%20May%207%2c%202016&elqTrackId=b9e915bc82274beeb6edb771fa8b7d44&elq=ab58705a1d474dfcbe7e1bc4faf06736&elqaid=22020&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=19143.
Now for the post. On March 23, 2016, Bookworm wrote, Does anyone have any advice for writing a story in first person with a character with a different personality than the writer? I’m having a lot of trouble with that. It’s okay in third person, but first person is what I’m aiming for. Any help with this is welcome and appreciated.
Christie V Powell said she has a similar problem and suggested an approach to solving it: I’m trying that too, but I am having so much trouble that I might have to start out in third and then maybe switch over after a few chapters and edit in the POV change. My character is very talkative, and she won’t stop chatting and start telling the story!
Bookworm answered: In one of my WIPs (I have at least two), my MC isn’t much like me, as I mentioned in my last post. She’s really shy, and she doesn’t often say what’s on her mind. I have trouble sticking to what her personality is supposed to be, since I’m definitely not shy. Please help!
Next, Emma wrote, I am struggling with this a little bit too. In my WIP that I’ve mentioned several times on here that has four MCs, one of the sisters is very much like me, and one is very much not. I find myself subconsciously making the one that is most like me talk the most and ask the most questions (because I tend to be inquisitive, and talkative depending on the situation), while the character who is least like me says very little. I could use some help as well on this subject, so pretty much what Bookworm said.
And Christie V Powell opined, You’re not usually shy, but I bet you have felt that way sometimes–first day of school? Giving a speech in class? You could try keeping those experiences in mind. I’m doing the opposite for mine–I am not very talkative, but every once and a while I’ll be in just the right situation, with just the right people, and one of my favorite topics has come up, and then I have no trouble being talkative!
I don’t know if it’s the same for everyone, but when I’m feeling shy it’s usually because I’m not sure how to act in a given situation. I have to have it figured out in my head how I’m supposed to act, what rules I need to follow, and how to respond to possible situations. Also, a lot of times there’s a fear of being judged– once when I was a teen, I was talking about writing to a trusted adult, and she said, “you must have mistaken me for someone who cares.” It took me years to be able to talk about my writing with others. I still often freeze up and think, “They aren’t interested in me. I’d better not say too much because I don’t want to torture them with something they don’t care about.”
Gee, Christie V Powell, what a terrible thing for that person to say! You earned that bit of shyness! Too bad!
I like Christie V Powell’s suggestion about changing POV to delve more deeply into a character, or to make her be the personality we’re going for. We can switch back and forth from first-person to third and create consistency when we revise. If we’re stuck, we can even shift into second person and see what happens, as in, You want to speak, but you’re afraid of sounding foolish. In your mind, you phrase and rephrase. The moment passes. The conversation moves on. You nod, hoping to seem part of the conversation.
Here’s another idea. If we’re not shy but our character is, we can turn his speech into thoughts. He’d like to express his opinion of, say, another character when she’s being discussed. He has an opinion, but he can’t bring himself to put it out there for whatever reason: he’s afraid no one will agree with him; his mouth is suddenly dry; he thinks he can’t say it well enough. If we put his dialogue into his thoughts–made him a talkative thinker–we may satisfy our own not-shy impulses.
If we ourselves are shy, we can reverse the process and turn thoughts into speech.
My guess is that most of us often write characters who are unlike us. Presumably, our villains aren’t much like us. Our other secondary characters probably aren’t, either. The differences don’t give us trouble, but when the different personality is our MC, the process gets difficult. We may not be sure about what’s going on in her heart and mind.
Christie V Powell did us a service by revealing what’s behind her shyness. When we write our own shy characters we can build on what she wrote. Our character may be careful and deliberate. She may think ahead and prepare as Christie V Powell does.
I’m shy sometimes, but usually not. For those of you who are shy, here are insights into the inner workings of a non-shy person. It seems a little like boasting, but in most social situations I feel confident. I’m interested in other people and hardly think of myself, which gives me a leg up. My motives for speaking up are varied. Sometimes I want to connect with others. Sometimes–shame on me!–I want to show off how thoughtful I am. Sometimes, lately, as I age (this is probably crazy), I want to demonstrate that I’m not senile. The reward for being not-shy is that often I do connect with people. The downside is that sometimes I rush in where sensible people won’t tread, and I goof. We not-shy, impulsive people have to take the consequences. Sometimes I kick myself afterwards. Sometimes I wind up with a funny story to tell on myself. We can do both with our characters.
Poetry school is almost over for me. On Friday the graduating graduate students will read from our theses (collections of at least twenty-five poems) at NYU’s Writers’ House, and then I’m done. I’m very sad. These three years have been marvelous, and I’m a better writer for it. I’m mentioning this, though, because in my final poetry workshop our entire class seemed to fall under a spell of shyness. Our teacher is soft-spoken and, I think, shy. A few of my classmates seem shy, too, and I’ve fallen under the spell as well. We email our poems to each other before class. Each student reads his or her poem and then we discuss, praising and criticizing. Our teacher weighs in, usually with comments and suggestions about particular lines or words, which are usually helpful, astute, and surprising. He seems to prefer spareness, my preference, too. The poet isn’t allowed to speak until the end, when he or she can ask questions. The spell kicks in. We speak softly. There are long pauses. Animated discussion never breaks out. The class always ends early. I’m almost as shy as everyone else, and I have an ulterior motive, because I have a long train ride home. I feel disappointed and glad.
Poetry is kind of an invitation to shyness. Poems are slippery. Good ones are often subtle. Meaning is elusive. Even graduate poetry students fear they’ve misunderstood the work of their fellows. I know this from looking inward. I don’t want to be revealed as a blockhead. So here’s a crazy suggestion: If you want to shy up your ebullient MC, stick her in a poetry class and see what she does.
Or, to make this a tad more ordinary, put her in a situation in which she feels less than competent. Before you start, think about what’s she’s good at and what she’s not. Then stick her in a setting where she feels like the least accomplished person in the room. If she’s tone deaf, put her in a music appreciation class. If she can’t tell her left from her right, make her participate in a conference on high-seas navigation.
Of course, our MC can be different from us in ways that have nothing to do with being shy or outgoing. He can be generous although we’re a little tight with money. His background and manners can be upper crust while we’re solidly middle class. He can be nervous while we never worry, even when we should. And so on.
To help us craft alien personalities, we can research these dissimilar traits. We can interview people we know who exhibit the characteristics we want in our MC. We can discuss our plot with these people. If we share our work with other writers we can ask them if we seem to have gotten it right. We can think about characters in books and movies who align with our MC. If we worry about imitation, we can also change our characters in important ways from our models so readers won’t pick up the source.
Here are three real prompts and a possible one:
∙ Many of Emily Dickinson’s poems don’t easily reveal their meaning, if they ever do. Here’s an example:
Except the smaller size, no Lives are round,
These hurry to a sphere, and show, and end.
The larger, slower grow, and later hang—
The Summers of Hesperides are long.
Emily, I have no idea what’s going on. Put two MC’s in a poetry craft class (where published poems are discussed). The students are considering this poem. One MC is outgoing, the other shy. The outgoing one offers her opinions, so you need to give her dialogue. The shy one thinks what he’d like to say. Write the scene and make both of them suffer.
The possible prompt is to comment on the blog about your interpretation of the poem. Comment whether you’re shy or not. Since this poem’s meaning is so opaque, it won’t be possible to be foolish.
∙ Your two poetry MC’s happen to run into each other later at a café. Write their conversation, which may or may not go well.
∙ Your MC is out of work, impoverished and hungry. She will do anything to change her circumstances, so she sees an online opening in an occupation of your choosing. To give herself a chance, she invents a resume that includes education, expertise, and experience she entirely lacks. She’s hired. Write her first day on the job.
Have fun, and save what you write.
Martina says:
Thank you so much for this post, Gail! I do have a question, though, that is almost entirely opposite of what you covered on this post. I like to write in first person, and more often than not, my main character is a female. I feel like if I wrote from a different perspective, or had a character with a different personality, I wouldn’t be able to write him/her as well. My question is: How can you create characters that aren’t exactly like yourself, but are still easy to write? (and sound natural when they are written.) Any tips would be great!
(BTW, this is Martina Preston; I just took off the “Preston.”)
Martina says:
Oh, I’m sorry! *facepalm* I didn’t realize this was a new post
Ignore my question, it’s already answered
Kitty says:
Not completely sure what the poem is about (literally just finished the AP English Language exam, so my brain is fried.), but I think it’s alluding to the golden apples tree in the Garden of the Hespirides in Greek mythology. Maybe something to do with envy (since that was the central theme in the story about the golden apple) and comparing yourself to others (the fast growers and slow growers).
One of the stories I’m working on has five protagonists, all which are widely different from each other. The way I manage to get into their head is finding qualities or emotions that they share with me. For example, one character is kind of temperamental and quick to anger, and has trouble controlling her emotions when she’s really riled up. (Since this is a fairytale rebelling and she represents the Evil Queen from Snow White, I thought this fit with the character.) I can relate. When I get really frustrated I tend to cry, which just makes me even more frustrated and angry that I don’t have enough control over my emotions and my own body to stop, and even though my head is perfectly capable of calmly solving the problem, I can’t stop crying. That character also struggles with jealousy because she feels like she has to be the best, and gets a lot of her self esteem from her accomplishments. That’s also something I find myself doing sometimes, and sometimes I’ll sulk for a while if I lose a contest/internship/award to
a classmate I don’t necessarily like. Or even if they get a higher grade on a test than me, I’ll somehow feel like I’ve “lost” the fight to prove to myself that I’m just as good or better than them. Another character struggles with fear, especially fear of injury and physical pain. I can also relate. When I was 10, I fell and skinned my elbow, and after a few days it got infected. And yet I was afraid of going to the doctor’s because he’d have to pry away the scab and soak the wound in alcohol, which hurt a lot. At that point I would’ve rather risked dying from the infection in the long run and deal with the pain in the short run. Of course, both of these characters are very different from me in certain ways too. The first is a queen bee, popular kid, student body president, and generally confident in ways that I’m not. The second is an orphan making a living dealing drugs in the slums of San Francisco. And yet, because of certain characteristics that I share with them, despite being different, I can understand them better.
Sara-not-Sarah says:
Your story sounds awesome! When I read this I totally related to the frustrated-and-then-crying thing! It made me not feel so alone about it. I hate whenever I do that, and I felt better about myself when I read that. Thank you!
The Florid Sword says:
@Christie V Powell- that comment is horrific! When I was little, I had spent weeks writing a five-page story, which I left lying around. The babysitter, one of my mom’s friends, found it and read it out loud, making comments about how cute my story was and how adorable it was that I’d written it.
I haven’t wanted to show my writing to anyone since.
Excellent post as usual, Gail. The poem is about reptiles, maybe?
My level of shyness varies. If I don’t let myself think about what I’m doing, I am outgoing and carry on full conversations with anybody. If I am around people I know, I tend to goof, which is probably weird and particular to me. I don’t think I’m very shy, but I can be.
Mary E. Norton says:
What do you do when none of your beta readers give any advice so your not sure if your writing is good or not? Because whenever I give my writing to someone they usually say they liked it, but no more than that. I just want to know what they liked about my story, what they didn’t like, how they felt a certain times, if it was confusing at some parts, and what characters they liked the best! But everyone just says the same thing, or they just put the story aside and end up never reading it. Its so frustrating! What am I to do, keep nagging them or just let it go?
Christie V Powell says:
I had that trouble with beta readers who are related to me (especially my younger sisters). I have started giving them a list of questions to answer. This last time, I gave my sisters the story without the ending, and said they had to answer my questions or I wouldn’t give them the ending!
Jenalyn Barton says:
I’ve learned that more often than not, beta readers need to be trained on how to be a good beta reader. I’ve started asking them to just comment their reactions, like, “Yay!” or “I like this” or “I’m confused” or “that guy is so creepy”. This way I know if I’m getting the right reactions from my readers. I tell them “don’t worry about giving me advice on how to fix something; that’s what my writing group is for.” So far I don’t have much feedback, some I only just started doing this, but what I have gotten seems to be working.
Lady Laisa says:
My younger brother is my go-to for an opinion on anything I’ve written. He and I have different taste in our reading material, but still more similar than others who I might go to for advice, so I always run it past him first. He often picks out any grammatical mistakes I’ve made, which is super useful and points out things he thinks ought to be worded differently. Then I usually have to ask his opinion on a specific character/description/bit of dialogue. He’ll tell me and then I might have him read the excerpt through again to see if he has any new insights. He’s invaluable!
I think mainly though you just have to ask questions and prepare for the possibility of having your darling story torn asunder. I asked for someone to read one of my excerpts once (a young lady who does critiques on her blog) and I didn’t mentally prepare myself to have my treasured creation dissected and I kinda lashed out a little. Not something I’m proud of. I mean I actually ASKED for it, and everything she pointed out was correct and I did end up changing things that needed changed. But I still felt awful when I saw all the notes and scribbles and changes. Next time I’ll be more prepared though, and can take it better.
So you have to realise that you are ASKING someone to tell you what they think is garbage. People are usually super-extremely-ever-so-very-polite when they critique, but it will still feel like you are coming under attack, and you have to prepare yourself for that. Just a warning.
Good luck!
Lady Laisa says:
I think no worded that one sentence awkwardly. “You are ASKING someone to tell you what they think it’s garbage.”
A better way to put that, I think is: “You are basically ASKING someone to tell you what parts of your story is garbage.”
Not that I think what you write is or may be garbage, it’s just that when someone criticizes something you’ve written it kind of feels like that’s what they’re saying. And I’ve had to realise that yes, a lot of what I’ve written would probably be better off in the garbage disposal.
I’m not trying to insult you in any way, don’t worry. Have a nice day, and may your pen/pencil/keyboard be extra inspired today. 🙂
Christie V Powell says:
Thanks guys. In the person’s defense, they were already under stress and I chose a really bad time to talk to them.
It sounds to me like the poem is talking about how people are like fruit, like golden apples. The ones that try to be perfect or exciting or anything over-the-top, might end up with their goal but then they burn out and won’t be as successful as those who are willing to grow slowly and accept that while they want to be the best they can be, they won’t be perfect and that’s okay.
I don’t know, that’s the impression I got.
Christie V Powell says:
I’ve gotten more confident lately, so I’m less likely to be shy, but I’m always going to be an introvert (you might want to research the difference, they’re often mixed up).
Kitty says:
Lots of talk about beta reader here, so if it’s okay to do so (sorry if this sounds spammy, I’m not being paid to promote or anything), I’d like to recommend a website I use, Scribophile. It’s basically a site where you can critique work for karma (the currency on the site) which you use to post your own work. It works like an actual economy, “buying” and “selling” critiques (with fake money, of course), which I like a lot more than asking people to critique my work out of the goodness of their heart. You can also find whole novel beta swaps with the groups feature. (the group The Novel Exchange hosts beta swaps every month or so, I’ve had both some good and some bad experiences with those.) It’s a freemium payment model, but I’ve found that the free basic account is more than for me.
It’s a great site, but just a word of caution if you do join. Be careful in the forums, especially the cool hangout chill zone, which isn’t really that cool or chill anymore.
Gail Carson Levine says:
Are the critiques on Scribophile helpful and not mean?
I’ve added the beta reader question and comments to my list.
Kitty says:
Helpful, yes generally. Mean…well, constructive criticism is generally emphasized more than praise, so frequently you will have people tear your work apart for the hopes of helping you improve. Of course, you’re welcome to specify what type of critique you want, and generally people will honor your request to go easier on you if you request. Or if they can see that you’re a newbie, they’ll generally go easier on you, at least for your first couple of works. None of the critiques I’ve received (or given) were outright mean, but I did have several that REALLY didn’t sugarcoat things that I needed to fix. It was helpful I respect their candor, even if it stings a bit. But of course, there’s a report critique button if somebody is legitimately being mean or unhelpful, and you can block people easily if you don’t want them to be able to see your work. If you want more info, you can check out thier faqs or code of conduct.
http://www.scribophile.com/help/faq
http://www.scribophile.com/help/codes/
I’ve found the critique portion of the website (which is the main purpose of the site) helpful, but like I said before, the forums have been a little…hot lately. It’s still a great site though.
Also, you have to be 18, so if anyone here is under 18 I would suggest getting a parent or older sibling to sign up for you, and DO NOT give any indication of your real age. Not in the forums, not in your profile, you keep low and you’ll be fine generally.
Gail Carson Levine says:
I clicked on the first link and came to the part about how all content, including erotic and very violent, is acceptable, so I have this to add: If you are under eighteen and want your parents to sign you up, make sure they see that part, too, and make a decision because they know you.
I will probably put this in my post: If you can, people you know are likely preferable for critiquing, because usually you know how to take what they say. Motives from strangers online can be murky.
Christie V Powell says:
I used the forum at NanoWriMo and did a beta read swap. She ended up being really good and gave exactly the feedback I was looking for, and was good at giving both positive and negative comments.
Chicory says:
Hmm. To me, the poem sounds like its about how lives that are glamorous can be alienating. Instead of having a life that sprawls and touches a lot of different people, they get stuck in a circle and don’t realize how small it is.
I have several characters who are different than me, but as I write I relate to them more and more, which might mean that they are growing more similar to me.
One character of mine who I have that I still haven’t figured out how to relate to is a princess who believes in caring about the big (political) picture rather than the individual. She is ruthless, but deeply honorable. As the story progresses, she’s supposed to become torn between protecting the (few) people whom she has allowed herself to become close to, and protecting her nation. (It’s a Twelve Dancing Princesses retelling. I was trying to explain why the eldest princess would allow all these young men -including the soldier she’s in love with- to die in order to protect her secret. The answer I came up with was that her country is at war and she can’t save them without putting the nation at risk.) She’s a tough character to relate to because I don’t think I could care more about my country than my friends. I would be a horrible spy.
Christie V Powell says:
Could you make saving the nation more personal? Looking at “the nation” as a whole might make sacrificing your friends more difficult. But if you thought of the whole nation as a huge group of people, any one of which is as important as a friend of yours, it might be easier. Perhaps if she’s been to a refugee camp or war-torn nation before and has seen the terrible results that might come to her country. Or she’s talked to her soldier about it and could picture hundreds more of him in the same danger. Maybe she’s been helped by a friendly community on the border that is now under threat–a community you’ve already described as peaceful and welcoming.
Have you read “The Princess Curse”? It’s another Twelve Dancing Princesses retelling that I really enjoyed.
Bookworm says:
Thanks for the post! I still hadn’t solved that problem until I read it. I tend to push my own shyness aside entirely when I’m about to do something I’m nervous about. I also used to move around the country a lot, so that took away a lot of my shyness.
Chicory: One thing that might help is to write her backstory. You’ll learn a lot more about her and maybe be able to relate better. You would not believe how cheesy I thought that sounded when I first heard about ‘Getting to know characters better’, but it actually works. Good luck!
Bookworm says:
I have a question (again). Whenever I get stuck in my main WIP, something weird and totally random pops up. One of the bad guys ends up only being evil because his family will die if he doesn’t, another character accidently causes their parents to have amnesia in the past, and another character nearly dies from a manticore. My main villain randomly gets an older sister, my MC tries to rescue her friends and all of them get captured except her, etc. etc. I feel like I’ve been having too much weird stuff going on in there. Any ideas on how to fix it? Any help is definitely needed and appreciated.
Christie V Powell says:
Why fix it? I’d suggest keep going until you’ve written ‘the end’, and then you can go back and decide which things worked and which are too weird.
Sara-not-Sarah says:
I agree with Christie V Powell! But if you really don’t like the weirdness, make a list of everything you find weird or out of place. Write down every idea you can think of about how you can make them work or fit together. Then you can get rid of anything you really don’t need. But it sounds super cool!
Lady Laisa says:
Hi y’all! I’m afraid I’ve been neglecting this wonderful blog, and it is a terrible shame, because it used to be such a huge part of my writing life. So I’m back.
Excellent post, Mrs. Levine, though might I say that I never once thought to care whether or not you mentioned what the ogres wore. You were a good enough writer that you conjured up the image of the monsters themselves and my mind supplied the trappings. (Which I’m told is something a lot of authors aim for. I’ve been told many times that Less Is More when describing clothing especially, and to describe only little things that will bring out character and interest. I still remember the red ribbon the female ogre wore. It’s stuck in my mind over the years, simply because it was a very good, short, but vivid little detail. That’s the kind of thing that really builds a picture. Honestly, I remembered the ribbon and forgot all the dresses Aza was forced to wear, or any of Ivi’s gorgeous wardrobe. That one tiny detail remained engraved in my mind.) Just saying. I don’t think anyone would have thought to criticize the lack of clothing description. You’re lovely. 🙂
I do have a question that has been bothering me for some time: How does one write a fundamentally righteous character who is passionate about their convictions without making them fall into the dreaded pit of Mary-Sue-dom? I mean everyone says to make your characters flawed, and I agree, characters need to be imperfect or they become stilted and lifeless and boring, but there’s a difference between someone who plays a prank on someone to get them back for something and someone who goes on a massive revenge spree.
I’m all for realistic, imperfect characters, but I think a lot of people take this waaaaaaay too far, what with lovable assassins (aka contracted murderers, not something I’m much fond of) and whatnot. I’m not willing to glorify something that is morally wrong. I’m not really into having my heroes and heroines being thieves or [insert similarly cliche YA outlaw figure]. Not that I’ll judge people who write that sort of thing–to be perfectly honest, one of my favorite books in the whole world is “The Thief” by Megan Whalen Turner–but I myself do not wish to go that way.
That being said, I do NOT want a bunch of Elsie Dinsmore’s running around in my stories. (No offence anyone who may like Elsie, but I think it is pretty universally acknowledged that she is “Mary-Sue” incarnate.) How do I make a hero (or heroine) truly HEROIC and virtuous without being overly saccharine?
If anyone has anything to say on this subject I will be all ears (um, eyes, I guess). Thanks in advance!
Christie V Powell says:
I don’t think the flaw has to be something huge like being a criminal. In my current WIP, my MC is merciful to a fault. At first it’s a very good thing, as she saves the lives of soldiers who were chasing her, especially after she realizes they’re only following orders. But she takes it too far and releases a man from prison who ends up being a major villain, and she has to force herself to fight/win against him in order to save the kingdom and her sister.
I think your question goes back to ‘love the sin, hate the sinner’ philosophy. Even Hitler had good traits, and he was a hero in his own eyes. Even Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. had bad traits. It’s a mark of maturity, I think, if you’re able to both condemn a sin and yet see the real person behind it.
Sara-not-Sarah says:
Maybe your MC has a fault that keeps her from always being heroic, like a temper. My main story that I’m working on has an MC with a bad temper. She tries to do the right thing but she ends up losing her temper and then immediately realizes what she did wrong.
You can also have your MC aware of her flaw and try to change it, but fail, at least some of the time. I did this in my story too. Your MC can have a flaw that prevents her from doing the right thing, like a tendency to not speak up or something like that. People she knows are being bullied by other people she knows, and she wants to tell the bullies, but she can’t because she’s worried that they won’t like her anymore.
Hope I helped!
Lady Laisa says:
Thank you, Christie V Powell. I get what you are saying. But I think giving them a good trait that is so good it ends up being a bad thing would make them almost more Mary-Suish than ever. I do think it’s a perfect way to make an antagonist more likable though, so I’ll keep it in mind. You answered a question I didn’t even ask yet! 🙂
Sara-not-Sarah, thank you as well. Temper is a good thing to make a character flawed, but I think I need more than just that, and I’m not sure what it is. I do like your second idea very much. A person can stay silent at a crucial time because they are afraid. The pros are they are flawed, but the cons are that they might end up looking like a pushover, and none of my MC’s are pushovers. I’m not sure how exactly to balance that out, but I’ll keep it in mind.
Thanks both!
Christie V Powell says:
All virtues are vices in excess. Conversely, you could argue that all vices are virtues turned excessive (example: greed is an exaggeration of ambition).
How’s that for a Homely Truth? I think King Lionel would be proud of me.
Gail Carson Levine says:
Yes, very good. I’m proud.
Lady Laisa says:
Absolutely, I totally agree with you, Christie. Well in a sense. I dint think you can have too much love, but I do think you can take love for others and twist it into some sort of unhealthy obsession, or you can take the practical virtue of caution and make yourself a worrywart.
It is a good idea. I like it a lot, but I have a Mary-Sue on my hands already and I think it will probably make the problem somewhat worse or make a caricature of my MC. I like caricatures, though I don’t tend to write them, and I like your idea. I’m sorry if it came across like I didn’t. (Truly I am, I am always grateful when anyone takes time out of their day to answer a question of mine.) I’m sorry if I offended you.
Christie V Powell says:
No problem.
Song4myKing says:
I’m not sure which irks me worse: perfect characters or characters who have flaws tacked on just to make them not perfect. Probably the characters with the tacked on flaws, because it’s so fake.
I don’t know the answer to your question. I only know that there is a way. I know I’ve read books where I’ve said, “Those characters were so good; I really liked them.” Yet they seemed real and ordinary. Good, realistic people – just like my real friends. The deal is, real people aren’t a list of good points and bad points. Real people are more like a conglomeration of strengths and weaknesses. And a weakness might not look the same in all situations. And every person is in a constant state of change. Everyone’s heading in one direction or another, and even that direction can change. Something happens and a person responds. Something was strengthened, for good or for bad.
I hope this wasn’t too abstract to make sense! The only piece of concrete advice I have to give is to understand your characters really well, to know their nuances.
Mary E. Norton says:
I have the same problem! What I have found helpful is if I look at myself. I am not perfect, but yet my flaws are not huge ones like killing someone or whatever. And if I look at my many flaws I find that I have a few prominent ones, pride, vanity, and a big mouth. Those flaws are not usually to obvious to an outsider, but yet they are still there, and sometimes do show by little acts. So I guess is what I am trying to say is that if you give your character little flaws from here to there and maybe let them show every once and a while, or even make your character acknowledge them, this will help your character to be a little more human. And remember, acts show more than words.
Mary E. Norton says:
Looking back at that post I realized that there were some holes in what I was trying to explain. I was looking back at the other peoples comments and I noticed how Song4myKing said how she hates it when people just tack on imperfections. My post sounded like that is what I was saying to do. I am also a little stuck on this question, because the answer really does run quite deep. I am stumped. So I am afraid that I cannot help with this question.
Song4myKing says:
Let me amend my statement: what I object to are the imperfections that FEEL tacked on. An author may look at a character and add a flaw, but work it in so well that the reader accepts it as simply part of the person.
What you said is true. I’ve just been trying to think what it is that separates the “tacked on” feel from the natural feel. And I think it must boil down to how it’s done – in other words, perhaps it’s one of those things that might be impossible to clearly define?
Margot says:
I think a character can be good and passionate about doing the right thing, but not always know what that is? Alison from the webcomic Strong Female Protagonist (http://strongfemaleprotagonist.com) is a good example of that – she’s really determined to do good, but she’s worked out that the world is more complex than she thought, so it’s not that clear what ‘doing good’ actually means.
Your virtuous hero can make mistakes, or feel confused about what to do in an uncertain situation.
Kitty says:
I need some help with my title. You guys were so helpful the last time I took a poll on this site, so could you tell me which one you like better
1. At first glance, and
2. After reading the summary?
Titles:
a. The Eyes in the Gingerbread House
b. The Candy Cane Conspiracy
Plot summary: After a school trip to the North Pole goes awry, revealing some unpleasant secrets, a twelve year old aspiring journalist and her friends must take down Sanra, his cabal of magical childhood folklore figures (Tooth Fairy, Sandman, Boogeyman, etc.), and his global surveillance operation.
Thanks!
(Also, does anyone else get the reference in title A?)
The Florid Sword says:
I like “The Candy Cane Conspiracy”.
Christie V Powell says:
Me too.
Kitty says:
Thank you!
Kitty says:
Thanks!
Sara-not-Sarah says:
I like title b. I think that title would appeal to younger readers (I’m guessing it’s for younger readers). It sounds really interesting!
I liked the first one before the reading the summary, but the second after.
Kitty says:
Thanks!
Song4myKing says:
I liked tile A at first. It seemed haunting and mysterious and more intriguing (to me). The tone sounds like something I might like. The second title is catchy and to me sounded like something I might pick up in a store with the sole purpose of seeing what its premise is. At that point, I’m curious only about the premise, BUT once I have it in my hands, the back cover has a chance to to grab me further.
After reading the summery, I’d say the Candy Cane Conspiracy appears to fit better, both subject and tone. Title “a” sounds more like a traditional fairy tale world, while title “b” sounds more like our modern world.
By reference, do you mean the parallel between the sugar coated house with a watchful witch inside and the sugar coated truth with a spying Santa? Or is there something else I’m missing?
Kitty says:
Thanks! You got half of the reference, with the sugar coated truth and the spying Santa. (“eyes in the sky” is a slang term for surveillance cameras, which he has a lot of). The other half is a play on the title of the book The Eye in the Pyramid, by Robert Shea, which is about the Illuminati, and how a mysterious group of powerful figures are secretly controlling everything, much like Santa and his buddies.
Lady Laisa says:
I like option B simply because it is so short and quirky. It would appeal especially to younger crowds (which is what you’re aiming for, right?), but I would definitely pick it up myself. Option A is intriguing, but it is a little long and doesn’t flow off the tongue quite as well, though it might give a better description of the story. If the tale is a funny one I would definitely go with option B, but if it is more serious story option A, or maybe a variation on option A, would be suitable.
Kitty says:
Thanks! It’s a middle-grade book, for ages 9-12, and while the tone is mostly funny, there are a couple serious points of social commentary.
Chrissa Pedersen says:
I was fond of title A before reading the summary, and after the summary and even more so after your extra explanations in the replies. And it feels very MG, if I were that age again I’d definitely pick up a book with that title.
Kitty says:
Thanks!
Sara-not-Sarah says:
I think the poem is about the golden apples as metaphors? Like we have to be patient to actually grow as a person and live a full life, just like an apple, sort of. And the part about the summers being long could be about life being long, but I don’t know.
Okay I have a question. I’ve done it both ways, I think, but is it better to start the main conflict (or something related) in the first chapter or after a chapter or two of character development? I know it probably just depends on the characters and I’ve thought about that before, but it’s vague. Does anybody have a concrete rule for this? Is there one at all?
Christie V Powell says:
My typical pattern is to start off with action for the first three chapters, with just enough explanation to get through it, and then slow down for character/world building for the next few chapters. Then follows the point of no return when the rest of the plot is laid out.
So the first one opens when my MC has been captured by an old friend turned traitor and confronts him, she meets a fellow prisoner and escapes (a prisoner who conveniently knows nothing about her world, so she has to explain some things), and the two of them avoid soldiers sent after them, all in the first three chapters. After that they slow down, meet a couple more characters, make plans, etc. And a couple more chapters in, the girls are captured by a rebel group that they learn to love and want to help.
Same thing in the second one (my WIP): in the first three chapters, my MC rescues a pair of boys who had been captured and the three of them escape into the dangerous countryside. Then it slows down to show where they are and why. Next they run into soldiers and have an emergency meeting that sends them on their quest.
So that’s my preferred pattern. You can look at other books and see what they do.
Lady Laisa says:
If you’re looking for how to start your first chapter I may have an article you would find helpful: http://thewritelife.com/the-worst-ways-to-begin-your-novel-advice-from-literary-agents/
Something I’ve found I really like is when the first chapter starts out interestingly. Not right in the middle of a raging battle, but also not just watching a character eat cerral, or examine themselves in a mirror.
I tend to start my MC out an hour or two before the wrong/right thing that happens to start the story off hits so that the reader has a page or two to know her, but still have an interesting chapter. I never let her have a “normal day.” Unless the “normal day” is destroyed instantly. Things will be slightly unusual right off the bat. One thing to remember that the first chapter is what will really draw an agent or publisher to your book, and of that first chapter the first page is the most important page. Just keep that in mind and try to have enough action to interest the reader without confusing the reader. Hope I helped. Good luck with your writing!
Christie V Powell says:
I read an article about cliche openings that included “don’t start with the character waking up and not knowing where they are.” At the time it was how my story started. The new ending is a lot better, I think, because it shows her being proactive instead of reactive. I’ve read an article somewhere about starting off with the character being active instead of passive.
Melissa Mead says:
I don’t think it has to be either/or. How people react to conflict reveals who they are. IMO, the more things a chapter can do, (Conflict, setting, character, tone…), the better.
Sara-not-Sarah says:
Thanks you guys! Lady Laisa, the article was really helpful.
Lady Laisa says:
I’m glad you thought so. I liked it a lot too. One of my favorite activities is to come up with interesting hook sentences, and they usually become stories. Unfortunately I can’t seem to keep any of my stories short so I am constantly surrounded by unfinished manuscripts. *sigh*
Christie V Powell says:
How do you look at gender in your characters? I got a review for my book today that noticed that I have several strong female characters but no trustworthy males in it (although you could debate about one of the guys). A few good guys are mentioned who come up in sequels. Do you pay attention to how many male and female characters you have and whether or not they are “good guys” or “bad guys”?
The Florid Sword says:
I personally believe that while women can and often are strong, there need to be at least a couple strong males. Typically I try to balance it so that when I’ve got a strong female character I have a second character who is either a strong male and good or a weak female who is also good. It is interesting, though, watching how culture is shifting to have a lot more stories where the hero is a woman (or teenage girl). I also think that having a female be saved by a strong male protagonist is not always a bad thing- damsels in distress are cliché, but at this point, so is the girl saving the boy.
The Florid Sword says:
This is just my personal opinion, sorry if it’s offensive to anybody.
Christie V Powell says:
Good point. It’s tricky finding a good balance.
I’m trying to have my girls be both strong and feminine. The other males in the book are definitely strong, they’re just not always completely trustworthy. One is mostly a good guy but puts his cause as more important than the MCs; another helps/saves the MCs multiple times, but he admits that he tells people “only what they need to know” about the (male) antagonist, his brother.
With my second one, it starts with the female MC rescuing two boys, but things go wrong and they end up working together and each being vital to the survival of the others–which seems more fitting to me.
Erica Eliza says:
Boys: I appreciate a well developed male character. Partly because I’m a girl and appreciate the window into the male mind. Partly because I’ve read lots of books where the boy’s job is to be the love interest, or some other narrow purpose. The first time I ever tried writing a book, the main boy was that type of character. I had to take a step back and think, “What does he want in addition to helping FMC? What does he do when FMC isn’t around?” I tried writing a YA contemporary a few months ago and realized I was falling into this trap again. What do high school boys think about beyond girls, school, and friends? I dunno. I live with teenage brothers but I still don’t know. So I went back and made Boy Character a student body officer so he’d have something important to do.
I usually do fantasy, so it’s easier to come up with non-girl agendas (and agendas in general). “Break my curse.” “Kill the evil knight.” “Defend the fortress.” “Invent a spindle-free spinning wheel for Sleeping Beauty.”
Actually, while typing that just now, I realized that my curse breaker had to rescue a princess as part of his curse. The knight killer was avenging his sister. Guard guy defends a fortress against a girl. And Spinner…yeah. So either:
1. People’s agendas are always tied to other people and the world is 50% female, 50% male
2. I’m still not good at this
Girls: I think the Rebel Princess archetype is overused. There are lots of ways for a girl to be strong, not everybody needs a sword. When I read Two Princesses of Bamarre, I appreciated Addie because she’s the first princess character I’d met who actually liked embroidery. I’m listening to a historical fiction audiobook right now called The Queen’s Vow, which is about Isabella of Castile. The author portrays her (at least as a teenager) as a very meek, thoughtful, pious girl. Meanwhile she has a fiery lady in waiting who wants to fight like a man. I like the contrast because
1. Not every historical lady was a rebel
2. Clashing personalities creates fun dialogue and character moments.
Christie V Powell says:
I agree that Mister-I’m-Supposed-To-Be-Perfect-Love-Interest turns out shallow and not remotely interesting. I like the idea of making sure the boys have a non-female related agenda. In my WIP I have two brothers who are very competitive with each other which I hope makes them more colorful–they are heading two different teams on their quest, so at times the main one can get too bossy trying to be faster than his brother’s team. I’ve thought about writing a story from a male POV but I don’t have the insight for that right now. Maybe when my sons are older…
Embroidery does get a bad rap, doesn’t it? I agree that too often girls are portrayed as having to be masculine to be strong. I have three princess characters– one is very much a tomboy, one more typically princessy, and the MC is in the middle. None of them use swords at all, just their clan abilities. I was trying to start the series with a smaller cast than the full one, and show the girls on their own before the boys come in, but I do worry now that I don’t have any totally good male characters in that first book. Maybe I’ll go back and revise it later.
I’ve noticed that every story I’ve planned, and almost every character, is shaped in part by sibling relationships. I’m not sure if it’ll get overdone or if that’s just my ‘thing’. I’m the oldest of eleven so siblings were always huge in my life.
M says:
Your comment made me realize that one of my secondary characters, a boy, really doesn’t have any motivation that doesn’t have to do with any girls. I had realized that he didn’t have any strong motivation before, and that helped me to pin down exactly what the problem was.
I agree that rebel girls are overused. While part of the problem is that not every girl is a rebel, I think another large part of it is that the “rebel girls” are way too rebel-ish. I’ve thought about writing from the POV of a princess whose philosophy is “Princesses should be good at politics (i.e, protecting their kingdom). This means that princesses should learn to use a sword, but not go off on adventures. They should learn to speak politely, but be intimidating when necessary.”
One book I’ve read where the character enjoys embroidery is Dragon Slippers. I believe it is a middle-grade novel.
Song4myKing says:
I don’t think I’d worry about it too much with one book. I might worry if it was a consistent trend through all my books. Even so, every author will have trends. I think we should try to notice what we tend to do, and then evaluate if it’s a good, bad, or harmless tendency. You are now aware that your first book had no fully good guys, and it sounds like you’re making sure that’s different in your next. But your tendency to shape characters by sibling relationships is a good thing, I’d say. It’s a very real thing, and you’re certainly a qualified person to write about it. I’m a middle kid in a family of six, and I find it refreshing when sibling issues are handled realistically.
Christie V Powell says:
Thanks.
Erica Eliza says:
On shyness:
Last weekend I went to a writing conference full of old, published, award winning people. I’m a nineteen year old, unpublished, awardless person. I went last year, too, when I was interning for a publishing company. I got to walk around with the company’s name and my position on a nametag, so I felt like I had a purpose.
The first time around, I thought, “I’d be more confident if only I could tell people I was in college.” This time I thought, “I’d be more confident if only I could tell people I was connected to a publisher.” My shyness varied both years in different social situations. Sometimes my youth made me self conscious and quite. Sometimes it was a bragging point. “Wow, you’re only nineteen? Good for you! I didn’t even like reading when I was nineteen.” One time I underplayed my age/accomplishments on purpose because I could tell the middle aged man next to me was self conscious about being a late beginner.
At teen writer’s conferences I’ve always been bold. You make as many friends as you can in one day, and then it’s over. They’re school aged people but you don’t have the social pressure that comes with school. At adult conferences I think, “Careful, you can’t make a bad impression on anybody, or they’ll remember when you’re older and published.”
Gail, you mentioned in a previous post that fear makes characters more observant. I’m not exactly fearful of writer’s conferences-it’s more like a weird weld of anxiety and desire to learn-but I definitely saw it impact the way I acted and observed things.
Gail Carson Levine says:
I don’t remember saying that about fear and being observant, but let me amend it, because it sounds too dogmatic. Fear may make a character observant, but it may shut her down and make her unable to observe, or it may have other effects. I think we can go lots of ways with any emotion.
Erica Eliza says:
Oops! I think I smashed together two different posts in my memory: “Lemme Out-Convincingly”, which is about escape and mentions observation, and an earlier one about Addie, who is timid, escaping from the dragon cave.
Melissa says:
Ha, in all my readings of Ella the lack of description never bothered me!
The Florid Sword says:
I never even noticed about the ogres. I had always just assumed they were wearing something. Lots of characters’ clothing never gets mentioned, but I just assume that they have something on that kind of fades in the rest of the story, as in no one really pays attention because it’s not that important. I wouldn’t worry about it, Ms. Levine.
Chrissa Pedersen says:
Gail congratulations and condolences for finishing your MA. Isn’t it wonderful that we can hold both happiness and sadness within our hearts at the same instant and not burst? And speaking of bursting when I read the poem it made me think of soap bubbles, the sort you make blowing on a round wand dipped in soapy water. Thanks Kitty for clearing up the reference to the Hesperides! My short notes as I was reading your responses: Kitty (golden apples & envy), Sara (patiently growing) and Christie (burn out too soon, better to grow slowly), Chicory (connecting with people). I love poetry because it makes you think and pry and wonder at what the author meant. A poem leads you on a journey and makes you see the world in a slightly different way. Rather like impressionism versus realistic painting.
Gail Carson Levine says:
Thank you! Last night, I dreamed about going on a road trip with my fellow poetry students, so I may not be ready to let go yet.
I love the poem interpretations! And I love the painting-poetry analogy.
Mary E. Norton says:
I know this might be strange, but on the topics of dreams, I remember that I had one where I meet you Gail. We were both in your garden and you were showing me around. I didn’t want to wake up it was such a wonderful dream. Kind of like when you have a dream you can fly…….
Mary E. Norton says:
Met, not meet. I hate it when I get typos.
The Florid Sword says:
I had a question. When, if ever, is it appropriate for the POV character to address the reader? I know that’s a very old-fashioned thing to do, but I kind of like the idea. Any suggestions would be appreciated!
Christie Valentine Powell says:
I picked up Shannon Hale’s Ever After High books off my sister’s shelf, and the third one (Wonderlandiful World, I think) includes a narrator addressing the reader. Maybe a better example you might want to read is Jane Austen’s Northanger Abbey. I don’t remember if the narrator addresses the reader directly or just indirectly, but either way it’s hilarious!
Melissa Mead says:
I think it could be fun, if the character has an interesting voice.
Kitty says:
It depends on what you plan on doing or what you’re going for. Are you planning on just having a few lines addressing the reader tossed in there, or large chunks? In my experience, most situations in which the fourth wall is broken are short, witty comments (an example from Rick Riordan’s The Hidden Oracle, where the narrator Apollo is “speaking to the audience”, “I don’t know how you mortals handle it, going about your puny lives knowing you’re eventually going to die.” (or something along those lines).) These can be nice, but it does tend to make the tone more casual, which might not be what you’re going for. Other times, there can be large chunks of narration directed at the audience, usually in the form of instructions. Read the first page of The Lightning Thief or any of the Kane Chronicles books if you want an example of this. The one caveat though, is that since this is used mostly in metafiction (meaning the “narrator” is actually writing the “book” in their world. The Kane Chronicles are metafiction (an audio recording the MCs make detailing their adventures, that Rick Riordan “transcribed”), and it’s implied that The Lightning Thief is too. But if your book isn’t metafiction, you might not want to break the fourth wall too often, or people might start thinking it is.
But anyways, here are some books that directly address the reader in either short comments or long chunks: The Magnus Chase series, The Percy Jackson series (the first chapter of book 1 is the best example). The Kane Chronicles (again, the first and last chapters are usually the best examples), and the Ever After High series that’s already been mentioned. (Though that’s a little different. It’s written in 3rd person POV, with an omniscient narrator that sort of becomes its own character, who sometimes addresses the reader.) Oh, and Lemony Snicket does this a lot, I’ve heard.
Lady Laisa says:
Hi, me again. Sorry. I have a problem that has been bothering me for years. I cannot finish anything I start writing. I know lots of people have asked about this and many many authors have made blog posts and books written from both sides of the plotter/pantser perspective, but my trouble is that I am neither. I am smack dab in the middle, and I cannot seem to get out.
See, in one way I’m a plotter. I can’t write if I don’t know very well where I’m going I cannot write. (Kind of like my dad on a trip. If he doesn’t have a very, very good idea where he’s going, he won’t go–unlike my mum who doesn’t mind wandering around a bit.) I need to know my destination and how to get there, or I cannot start out.
On the other hand, I find plotting tedious. I will plot out my story until I hate it so much I would rather take a weed whacker to it than a pen. I may write for a while, but the loathing intensifies until I sometimes let literally hurl the manuscript at the wall. I then crumple it into an envelope and leave it to moulded in my closet for years. Sometimes I’ll pull it out (not often) and take a peek, and then get excited about it and write on it for a little while, but then I get drained all over again, and try instead to work on a less taxing story.
This has been going on for roughly six and a half years, and it just gets worse over time. I have about three hundred loose stories, all at various stages of completion, (I even have a whole first draft! But it is so hideous it turns my stomach to even look at it) floating around in the abyss of my closet.
Does anyone have any tips for how to write a story without a plot of how to outline a story without become desperately bored? I welcome all and any opinions/thoughts. Thank you!
Lady Laisa says:
Also spellcheck hates me. I apologize if my comments are difficult to understand. Writing on a tablet is monstrously difficult.
Gail Carson Levine says:
I’ve added your question to my list. In the meanwhile, anyone?
Lady Laisa says:
Thank you! (I’m reading your book, “Writing Magic” for the first time right now, and it’s being an inspiration. I love it!)
Christie Valentine Powell says:
Does it need to be a specific outline? Many “plotters” I’ve talked to have a rough idea, maybe up to a page, of where things are going, but not a precise blow-by-plow description. I’ll have the story broken down into big sections, but without a ton of detail. That way I know where I’m going but I’ve still got room to play (like giving yourself extra time on the vacation for exploring new places).
Another thought: I’ve heard of the Snowflake method, a type of plotting that works for some people. You might give it a try.
Lady Laisa says:
I don’t know if I’ve tried your way yet. I have tried a very vague outline, just two or three paragraphs to explain the basic “shell” of the story, if you will, but that wasn’t enough detail. I didn’t know what my character’s short term goals were when I did that, and goals are, I’ve found to my dismay, a VERY big part of a character. I just have a really, REALLY hard time figuring goals out (if anyone has anything to say about character goals I would like very much to hear it).
So when you say that you have your story broken down into sections what do you mean? Like “Part One: The Journey” “Part Two: The Betrayal” “Part Three: The Final Solution” sort of thing? I’ve never really tried that, but I could see how it might work.
I do like having some elbow room to give some room to spontaneity. Tolkien himself had no idea that Strider, when he wrote him into the scene at the Prancing Pony, would end up being such a pivotal character.
But if I have too much elbow room the plotless expanse stretches before me like an open prairie, and I feel like a rabbit trying to reach his warren and knowing full well that at any moment a hawk might swoop from the sky to devour him.
I definitely think the snowflake method is worth looking into. Thanks for the recommendation!
Christie Valentine Powell says:
I was trying to look up an example, but I’m having computer trouble. I have somewhere between five and ten sections. The book I just finished (er… mostly) is a quest, so it included different geographical regions. The next one I’ve outlined are more story-related (something like this: Exciting Opening, World Building, Character Building, Betrayal, MC character growth, Exciting Climax, Resolution). I’ll have a few bullet points under each of things I think I should cover. When I’m writing and getting closer, sometimes I’ll stop and plot out the next section more clearly–either on paper or in my head: “Okay, this is the Hanan region section. I’m going to start with the characters sneaking into the city, then they’ll meet some humans who tell them how to find the heir. How can I do that in an interesting way?”
Christie V Powell says:
Here’s the example I was looking for earlier, for the book I’m going to work on next (I’ve slimmed down the details).
1. The Call: adventure in the mountains, Keita mostly alone, joined by one or two friends. Something that exposes villain Felix’s power. Perhaps K tries to reason with them, then tries to fight them, and loses both times. She is saved by Zuri, which she finds humiliating.
2. World building/Dream Stage: Keita rejoins all of her friends, they encounter their first group of Sprites, and get a feel for the place. Conflicts between various characters set up. They encounter the PJ tribe and meet cousin Hunter. With his help, the other PJs decide to back up Glen and the others.
3. Confrontation: Felix’s army defeats them. M betrays them. Keita is separated from her friends.
4. The Middle:
a. Lots of character-building with K’s cousins, especially Hunter.
c. Warren tells Keita that she could replace her brother and be queen. She considers this for quite a while and doesn’t decide to leave until the climax. Warren tries to help her train and learn about being queen of Spritelands, teaches her things about her kingdom she never knew because her father was teaching her brother instead.
d. Grandpa Warren reveals his backstory.
e. Pineville: meet humans, protected by Jay.
f. they also reunite with the rest of the spectrum, who updates her on the political stuff (does this happen only in the climax?)
g. Keita and company arrive at the prisoner camp where her other cousins are. Hunter reveals his backstory (or is this in the dream stage?). They manage to escape but the threat increases
h. They need to learn Felix’s backstory from his mother’s point of view,
i. A chapter where Keita and Zuri work together and K feels okay with Z “taking her place” (move to resolution?)
5. Climax: Confront Felix
6. Resolution: leaving two characters behind, moving on to next kingdom.
Christie Valentine Powell says:
With goals, I think it might depend on your story type. For my quest story, it was pretty easy. For most of the book, the driving goal is trying to find the true heir (although the very beginning and very end have different ones). For my first book it was harder and changed more, and I feel like it’s not quite as good because of it. I imagine a more realistic or character-driven story would be less cut-and-dry–which honestly is one reason I haven’t been able to write that kind of story.
Lady Laisa says:
Thanks for all your help, Christie. 🙂
One question though, (from your comment answering my question about goals) what did you mean when you say that in your first book “it was harder and changed more”? Did you mean the basic whole-story goal, or the goal of a single group or the goal of an individual?
Christie V Powell says:
I meant the driving purpose changed more. They still had an overall goal (help protect the kingdom), but the goal that drove their main actions changed more frequently: escape the villain, travel to a certain city, escape the rebels, help the rebels, investigate a different city, investigate a clue… I had to make sure each time it changed that the reader knew why they had changed and what they were planning on doing next.
Kitty says:
I’m a sort of plotter too, but all the plotting is done in my head. (Cause I’m lazy and don’t like writing things down.) The only exception I made is for NaNoWriMo, because having a written outline to consult helped with working with a time limit. But even then, I only wrote on draft of my outline, and my story has changed quite a bit since then. All further plotting was done in my head, where it can easily swirl around with other ideas, simmer, and mature as I add in things or change things. Plus, it’s always on my mind, and I like that it’s not as set in stone as it would feel if I were to put it on paper.
Jordan W. says:
I’ve had an idea for a story for a while now. When ever I get an idea for a scene I write it down, I have practically written the entire book just out of order. I’m wondering if I should rewrite the entire thing or copy and paste what I have in the proper order. I feel like it would be fun to start from scratch, and write, but I also feel like I might grow bored with the repetition. Any thoughts?
Christie V Powell says:
When I finish a first draft, I make a list of all the scenes, with a phrase or two describing it. I find it easier to move those lines around into the proper order than the whole scene. Then I group them into chapters, each with an opening, rising action, climax, and resolution (which might wait for the next chapter’s opening). That also helps me see if there are any gaps that need filled. And then I go through and start editing.
Christie V Powell says:
That’s what I do. Whether or not it works best for you I don’t know, but it might be worth experimenting with.