On March 21, 2013, thelightwells, or Charlotte, wrote, You mentioned that if you’re writing poetry, you don’t need an agent. What about picture books (just the text)? Also, I don’t think you’ve done a post on picture books yet… any thoughts there?
First off, to Charlotte: If you can’t post on the blog, you can always write to me on the guestbook on my website and I’ll copy the comment over. This goes for anyone else, too.
Starting with the first question first, I think you need an agent for picture books as much as you do for novels for children and young adults – which is not absolutely, not in every case, but these days, most often. When I was writing about poetry, I meant poems for adults. As I wrote in my post about agents, many children’s book publishers don’t accept unagented unsolicited submissions. You can get around this if you meet an editor at a conference and she wants to see your work, but otherwise, probably not. If this is the aspect of Charlotte’s question that interests you most, I suggest you read or reread my post on agents. Just click on the label on the right.
However a comparison with poetry is apt. Many picture books are poems, whether they rhyme or not, because of the demands for conciseness that picture book length imposes on a writer. We snip here, snip there, and find simple ways to present complex ideas, and the result, ta da!, is often poetic.
I’m not the best source for picture book advice, because I have only two published picture books, and the sales of the second one were abysmal. I have a great idea for a third in the series, but the failure of the second has killed it, at least for the time being. In general the market for picture books is down right now, I believe, unless it’s turned around and nobody told me (entirely possible).
But the market shouldn’t stop you. Picture books are still getting accepted and published every day. And they take a long while to be published after acceptance, because they have to be illustrated. First the illustrator has to be chosen (by the publisher, not the writer), and then she has to fit the book into her schedule. By the time all this happens, the market, which is cyclical, may have changed in favor of your book.
If you write and illustrate, it is fine to present both text and art to a publisher (generally through an agent). However – if you’re willing – you should let the agent or publisher know that the two can be separated. If the publisher likes the text and wants to find a different illustrator, you’re okay with that. Likewise – if this is true – make clear that, if the publisher loves your art, you would be happy to illustrate other projects and let your text go.
If you just write, the text is all you should submit. Don’t find an illustrator on your own and submit the two as a package. Editors and art directors collaborate to pair your words with an illustrator. Most writers I know are happy with the results.
As you write, you may have instructions for the illustrator. You can include these, but keep them to the essentials. The illustrator will have ideas of her own. Along the same lines, in picture books almost all setting detail in the text is too much detail. You can indicate the setting in your notes for the illustrator, but leave it out of your text, by and large. The illustrator will show it. Words are precious in picture books.
The illustrator shares the creative role with the writer in a picture book. The publisher considers the creation a fifty-fifty split. Accordingly, you’ll share the royalties equally, too. (This isn’t the case with the cover of a novel or with occasional spot illustrations in a chapter book. In these instances, the artist is paid a fee.)
When I started writing, I was afraid of the novel and I stuck to picture books for several years. No one would publish them. The only one that got published as a picture book was Betsy Who Cried Wolf, and that was after Ella Enchanted, and I had to revise it big time. Another picture book became The Fairy’s Mistake, the first of the short novels that make up The Princess Tales series.
At that time, the popular wisdom was that a picture book should be under 1,000 words. I agree with this. When I see a lot of words on a page in a picture book it feels wordy to me. However, many are published with a much higher word count, so I’m not sure. And my two picture books, which have many word balloons, may be over the line! We’re in territory now that I don’t usually inhabit and don’t often visit. What follows are ideas that you should check out further, and if blog readers have more experience than I do, please speak up.
Picture books cover a big age range from board books for babies to story books for kids as old as eight. And nonfiction picture books can skew even older, into middle school, I believe. There are wordless books that may nonetheless have an author as well as an illustrator. In such books, the author tells the story in instructions to the illustrator.
One of the charms of picture books is their range. A picture book can be about anything. There’s a lot of room in novels, but even more in picture books. For example, Kate McMullan’s very popular I Stink is about a garbage truck.
The best preparation for writing picture books is reading them. Read lots of them in your local library. Visit a bookstore and see what’s new and which books became classics.
Back to my beginnings. My favorite guide for writing for children, including picture books, was Barbara Seuling’s How to Write a Children’s Book and Get It Published. I read it so many times that the glare from my eyeballs lightened the print! It’s been updated, and you too may find it helpful.
These prompts are themes from some of my never published picture books. See what you can do with them. Tell the story in under 1,000 words just to feel what that’s like. Then try telling it in under 500 words. Under 200 if you can. Once you’ve done that, if something longer suggests itself, that’s fine, too.
• Because of a curse, the people in a particular kingdom have forgotten how to sleep.
• A girl believes her earlobes are shrinking.
• A boy wreaks havoc by blowing the world’s biggest bubble.
• A girl’s nose itches, and the meaning is interpreted by everyone she knows.
Have fun, and save what you write!
Molten Notebook says:
Another format Charlotte might consider is the children's story app. I think it includes sound and interactive components, as well as text and illustrations.
Here's an overview: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/appsblog/2012/sep/25/best-childrens-apps-storytelling
(Favorite line: "The best children's apps are successful because of a pair of more traditional qualities. Great storytelling. Strong characters."
A review of one app: http://kidlit.com/2011/02/18/app-review-nosy-crows-three-little-pigs/
Has anyone out there tried a storytelling app? I'd be curious to hear how it compares to the print experience.
Athira Abraham says:
I finished writing a short fairy tale story because I wanted to have a short story of mine published before I do any big novels (just like you, Gail!).
I got hold of a publisher, but he says he doesn't do books that are the length of mine. Mine is 8 pages, in Microsoft Word. Its supposed to be about three princess siblings, and all three of them are cursed with pricking a finger on spindle, eating poisoned apple and turning into a toad, and loosing her voice and having fish legs.
I don't have an agent. It's just my dad and I working on this. Could it still be published? And if so, what would I do once I email a publisher?
One last thing: I know there are many, many counting books. Could you publish a counting book for toddlers before you do the bigger novels (this is only when I am desperate to have a short story published)???? Thank you!
carpelibris says:
How many words long is it? (Editors usually go by word count, not page count.) You generally don't need an agent for short stories.Just find a market list (I use Ralan.com), check out the markets until you find one that sounds like a good fit for your story, and follow the Submission Guidelines.
Some things to keep in mind:
Make sure your story is in Standard Manuscript Format, unless the market asks for something different. http://www.shunn.net/format/story.html
Beware of markets that ask you to pay to submit.
Writing is a really tough field. Most stories get rejected. (I have over 600 rejections.) So if yours does, try not to be discouraged. Write another story instead. The more stories you have out there, the better your odds, and the more you'll improve.
Good luck!
gailcarsonlevine says:
Great answer! And the link is so helpful. I learned something new. I like Courier, but I thought it was out of fashion. Now I know better. Thanks!
Athira Abraham, I second carpelibris on rejections. I never counted, but I got stacks!
carpelibris says:
Thanks! I've submitted to places that don't like Courier, but I use it unless the market says not to.
I may have quoted this before, but I have a friend that says "Rejections are trophies. They're proof that you're trying."
I'm just glad that I don't have to come up with shelf space for all my "trophies!" 🙂
Athira Abraham says:
So would I be able to publish a counting book for toddlers before I publish a bigger novel? Because I know there are many counting books and they are VERY easy to write.
gailcarsonlevine says:
No one can predict what will get published, but it's possible. Your counting book needs to stand apart from the rest. Good luck with it!
Elisa says:
Good post, seeing as I have a book in mind that I might like to get published as a picture book.
Elisa says:
Oh, also, I have a question that I need help on. I can't find the proper name for my "Beast", who most of you know already from previous comments. I just can't find a good one. If anyone can help that would be great. I want his name to sound a little foreignish, but not outlandishly crazy (If, that is, there is a difference that you can discern). It doesn't necessarily need to mean something relevant to my story, but if it does, that would be wonderful! Names that mean protector or defender (Or possibly bear or Lion) would be great. Also, maybe peaceful or noble, or something like that (Basically, you decide what you think he should be named). To help out a little: He's sort of tall, physically strong with hair that is either black or deep brown and brown eyes. I'm sort of thinking of thee names, but I'm not at all sure I'm good with any of them. What do you all think? Jedrek, Aralt and Aurik. Jedrek means strong and both Aralt and Aurik mean leader. All or any help will be very welcome. Thanks! Oh, and Aritha Abraham, your story sounds AWESOME!
Athira Abraham says:
Thank you!
I like the name Aralt and Aurik more than Jedrek. I also like the name Darryl for the beast, if that helps.
Bibliophile says:
I like Aralt, but another good one I know I use a lot in drafts and so on is Coram which actually means like face-to-face with in Latin or something. I just think that it sounds man/princely. (As you may have guessed, I LOVE fairytales and princes and so on) You could also use Ferrus, which is wild (again in latin) or Yurron which is totally made up. Another thing you could do is take a selection of letters you want to use in his name and just start jumbling him. One thing though that can really make or break a name is pronounciation. I.e., my mom won't read fantasy because of the 'hard, weird names'. Just something for all of us to keep in mind as we write.
Elisa says:
Thanks! I'm leaning towards Aralt, because it's been "Voted on" (A little ritual held between me and my siblings) But I like the sound of Aurik better. I'm still not sure which is going to make the cut, but until I do decide, I'll use Corum (So that I can write while I'm still inspired). Also, Athira, Darryl would have been excellent, aside from the fact that one of Tashmarine's brother-in-laws is probably going to be called that (He's probably going to be Tourmaline's husband, but I'm not sure. Names are very important to me, and it takes a lot of time and effort and searching and hoping before I actually pick one. Nothing bothers me more than a badly chosen name, especially for an MC, who bears the name for the entire book. Ugh. A Bad name for an MC can ruin a book. Or really dampen the readers opinion.) Thanks for helping me!
Lucy says:
As this is my first time commenting, I would first like to thank you, Ms. Levine, for all your helpful advice both on this blog and in Writing Magic. I have greatly enjoyed reading this blog and your books.
I also have a question. A year ago, I finally mustered up the courage to begin writing a novel. As I was writing, I spotted seemingly minor plot and character problems but believed that pushing through would help. Now, 120 pages later, I realize that the problems are major enough to merit starting over. Even though these problems are the ones that have been plaguing me basically from the very beginning, I did not realize that I should start over until now. In order to prevent this from happening again, I am wondering , how do you know when you need to start over? And how do you motivate yourself to start over when that time comes? Any advice you or others on the blog could offer would be much appreciated.
gailcarsonlevine says:
Congratulations on finding your courage! And welcome to the stormy seas of novel writing (at least as I practice it)! Some of my books go better than others, but on books that give me trouble, I also tend to start over… And over… And over – after hundreds of pages. What alerts me is that I feel like I'm writing in quick sand. I don't have a solution, just company. But maybe someone else does.
Bibliophile says:
REALLY DETAILED OUTLINING….. Basically, just write a shortened version and and just keep adding to it with like notes and stuff. This is probably not the best way to write though. I think that there really isn't a solution to this problem. At the very least, not one that's foolproof.
Elisa says:
Lucy, this happens to me ALL THE TIME! I was planning to write a little, short, cute "try-out" story, to see if I could actually finish something and get it published. It started out small, but then I got an idea that would make it better, and then better, and soon I had embellished it so much that it was no longer a short story, but a full blown novel (No, I have not made my way past the fifth chapter, but I do know where I'm going when I do get past there, beginnings really are a problem for me) that will require lots of work. This happened after I had already started and gotten to somewhere near chapter three (Not so far as you, thank goodness) but I then went back and worked in the wanted scene, and then I had a new idea, and deleted the whole story, and restarted. I did this several times. I've given up making it a short story. My point is, you will probably always have this "Newer Better Idea" problem and there is really no remedy, (Because, all really good authors have this. It makes good books) aside from careful planning and LOTS of thought (I think about my story before bed, because it's the only time I really have time completely devoted to thinking). So just think about it a lot before hand, and (hopefully) the story will work its way out. (Before chapter twenty-two.) Hope this helps.
Lucy says:
Thank you all for your very helpful advice and commiseration! It is encouraging to know that others experience the same problem.
Michelle Dyck says:
Mrs. Levine, I just finished reading THE TWO PRINCESSES OF BAMARRE today. (First time reading it.) Marvelous work! It was an entertaining read, full of whimsy, adventure, and unique characters. Vollys in particular was intriguing. I enjoyed aspects such as the seven-league boots and the magic tablecloth, as well as Addie's growth throughout the story. And, of course, I liked the unexpected and bittersweet ending.
Just wanted to let you know you have another pleased reader out there! 🙂
gailcarsonlevine says:
Thank you!