Also on the website are details about my appearance next week at the public library in Chelsea, Michigan. For this, click on News, and then on Appearances. Hope to see some of you in Michigan!
On February 17, 2011, Grace wrote, How long can one write without introducing the main problem of a story? In my newest project I have my main character in a new place with a lot of wacky characters I love to write about. They’ve had some small problems that keep the plot going thus far but I’m getting on 20k words now and I still haven’t introduced the main conflict that will guide the story and hopefully the rest of the planned series. Is this too long? Do you think the reader will get bored? I hesitate to rush the plot too much because then the characters would have to leave their current location and I really love where they are right now and all the characters there.
Many of you commented most helpfully on Grace’s question, and you can go back and read what everyone said. Some mentioned foreshadowing, and I have a future post coming up on that subject, so you can keep an eye out for it. I’m including Erin Edwards’s comment in the post, because it’s so helpful. Here it is:
@ Grace – Lots of really good published books seem to put off the main problem and they do a really good job of immersing the reader in the story world – but they aren’t necessarily ones who would easily get an agent or publisher in the current climate. Getting to the main problem quickly is kind of a trend right now, especially when agents and editors only read the first 10 pages! But really you shouldn’t worry too much about getting published as you write; a lot can happen in revising.
Things you can keep in mind:
– Keep writing. It may be that after you finish you can reorder your scenes and alter this scene you love into a middle scene.
– Go back over what you’ve written and see if you can drop hints about the main problem that’s to come. Build the anticipation.
– Or maybe, your main problem that you have in mind isn’t going to work and that’s why you’re avoiding it. As you keep exploring you may come up with a better main problem.
Writing is rule-free territory, so there’s no rule about how quickly the main story problem needs to start. Some books have no main story problem, or the main problem is soft-edged. Going back to Little Women, which we discussed two weeks ago, what’s the thrust of the story? Beth’s death? No. Jo’s love life? No. A family enduring poverty? I don’t think so. The girls don’t engage in a get-rich scheme to reclaim the family fortune or pack a bag and set off into the Civil War to find their father . We’re propelled through the story by our interest in the characters and the series of incidents Louisa May Alcott presents. The theme, I suppose, is growing up.
Time and Again by Jack Finney (middle school and up, I’d guess), a time-travel novel I love, doesn’t get moving for fifty pages, and the first fifty, in my opinion, are dull. I used to be a more forgiving reader than I am now, so I hung in. Then the story, once it got going, was impossible to put down. I read the book many years ago, so I don’t remember if those first fifty pages were essential, and I still recommend the book heartily. It’s charming and light-hearted and full of details about old New York City.
In a writing class I took over and over when I was getting started, our teacher would read a few students’ chapters out loud every week and then ask for comments. Often, when she read a first chapter, people said that we’d heard just “back story,” information that the writer needs to know but the reader doesn’t. The advice would be to keep writing and find the story’s real beginning later.
Grace, it sounds like you do have a strong story line in mind. What you’ve been writing may be back story, which you may need to cut later. Or maybe you’re writing a different book in the first 20,000 words. Maybe you want to split the two apart.
If you need to cut, remember the writing advice from William Faulkner to “kill all your darlings.” I think what he meant is that we protect our most gorgeous phrases, our most fascinating scenes. We write around them; we twist our plots so our beautiful lines can stay. After a while, they just get in the way and they have to go.
But they don’t have to vanish. I save my “darlings” for each of my books in a document I call “Extra.” I’ve eliminated more than a thousand pages in the course of writing my books, possibly over two thousand. Of course, most of those weren’t darlings, but some were. In my case, the darlings are usually scenes of exquisite character development, and it hurts to give them up, but I do, because writers have to be ruthless.
This is a prompt in the middle of the post: Become aware of your darlings. Go through a story you’re working on and underline the parts you would rather chop off your arm than cut. Save your old version, then delete those bits and see what happens to your story. Does it become cleaner? Is it better? Is it worse? If worse, put the parts back.
I’m a plot-driven writer. My stories don’t depend on the charm of the characters, although I hope some are charming. My books focus most of all on action. Alas, you might not be able to tell that from Beloved Elodie, which I’ve started yet again. The book begins on a boat. In the next-to-next-to-last version the action then moved to an inn, where I introduced the suspects but I held off on the mystery. Ho hum! said the reader. Why do I care about these people? Nothing is at stake.
To make matters worse, I had my characters journey together for pages and pages before they reached the place where the mystery was going to begin. Meanwhile, they revealed motives for committing the crime whenever we got to it. My critique buddy asked me, in the kindest possible way, what the heck I thought I was doing.
So I realized I could move all my suspects to the place where the mystery would start. Elodie could meet them when she arrived. Still, I kept the scene in the boat and then took her to the inn, where the problem was introduced in a theoretical way, and I didn’t get to the scene of the action until page 59. Double-ho-double-hum!
In this latest revision I’ve kept the scene on the boat, which is essential, and I begin the crisis there, on page 10. In revision I may trim even more, but the first nine pages are pretty exciting.
On the other hand, in A Tale of Two Castles, which you will soon be able to read (Yay!), the mystery takes even longer to get going, but it’s okay, because Elodie has a pressing problem at the beginning, and the reader cares about that. So it’s fine.
As usual, the key is reader interest. If the reader falls in love with your wacky characters, Grace, and is as happy to read about them spreading jam on toast as escaping from a burning building, all is well, and you can delay conflict as long as you like. However, it’s very hard to keep a reader engaged when there’s nothing to worry about. Also, conflict will bring out sides of these marvelous people that the reader wouldn’t see in a pleasant scene around the breakfast table. For example, Melba is having lunch with her friends in the school cafeteria. She’s the one who goes back for more ice or helps mop up spilled apple juice. But when a fire starts, she may behave unexpectedly, and the reader will see her in a new light.
Grace and anyone else with this question, you may want to show your story to a fellow writer or a good reader. Ask him if he longed for something to worry about. Have him tell you the spot where he began to feel frustrated and also to point out the places where the story picked up again, if it did.
Here’s another prompt: After school, Melba is going to discover that her house has vanished. She has no idea, however, that this is going to happen, and neither does the reader. Write a scene with Melba and her two best friends before she goes home. Let the reader get to know Melba a little. Try to keep up his interest without foreshadowing. Introduce minor problems, but hold off on the house disappearance. Feel when you think the reader is detaching, and stop before boredom sets in. Feel free to write more of the rest of the story after the disappearance.
Have fun, and save what you write!
F says:
I'm not much of a dog person, but those pictures are absolutely adorable! Reggie is one handsome puppy, that's for sure! I loved them!
As for your blog post…yes. I wouldn't say I'm a forgiving reader (heh, once I gave up on Percy Jackson 'cause it didn't interest me at that time), but I don't notice slow starts. There was a book which I absolutely adore, and which I lent my friend and through the first two hundred pages she kept saying NOTHING'S HAPPENING! I had never noticed that…it never went slow for me, haha. So I suppose it also varies from person to person (this book is Princess Academy by Shannon Hale, and there was an old, old blog post by her where someone told her that her first line's aren't attention-grabbing, and she commented on how she doesn't really go for hooks from the first line, but rather slowly integrates teh reader.)
Run on sentences ftw. xD
Wendy says:
I've read a few books that are totally like that: it takes forever to start the story going, but once it's going, it's amazing! For me, as long as the "backstory" is somewhat interesting, I'll keep reading until something happens. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not. But it also depends on my mood.
I'm having a similar problem. I'm trying to write a story that has a lot of characters, and they all have an important part in the story. But I'm not sure if I need to show my main character meeting them all, or if she should just know them when the story begins. How should I introduce everyone? How specific do I need to be, and how much should I assume on the part of the reader? Would it be confusing for me to throw characters in there without an introduction? How soon should I show character developing scenes for them?
Ok, that was a lot of questions… any help would be appreciated.
marveloustales says:
It's fascinating how trends in boosk have changed. In the 1800s, it seems like every book started "I am born," regresses back to talk about ancestors, parades through childhood, and finally gets to the conflict around page 200. Now, the push seems to be to get into the conflict by page two (if not sooner).
I'd bet money that if Jane Eyre was written today, it would start when she arrives at Thornfield (and I'm honestly torn on whether that would improve the story). Sometimes "I am born" makes me want to tear my hair, but on the other hand, I LIKE knowing about Scarlett O'Hara's parents. And Jane's childhood was interesting, though not as interesting as when Mr. Rochester turned up.
All of which is a round-about way to say that, like anything else in writing, it seems that there are no rules. And like fashion, trends change.
Rina says:
Someone on a blog I read said once that books are trying to compete with television nowadays, and that's why they start so quickly and can't bother to do all that lovely backstory and exposition. I don't know… there are points to both the quick beginning and the long one.
Sami says:
I asked this before but you didnt reply…..
How would you go about writing a love story but you have never been in love before? I really want to know how I would go about doing that!
Thanks
Sami
Jill says:
I loves this post because right now I am working on a story that could have been written in the 1800's as far as starting with a long backstory. I have been so nervous because even I get bored with some of the longer drawn out scenes. It seemed interesting writing it but looking back, I wouldn't even read it!
April says:
@F, I love Princess Academy. Funny that your friend thought nothing was happening. On a couple of occasions (while trying to purge my book collection) I've read the first page to see if it's still worth keeping, and I end up having read the whole book in one sitting. Ha ha!
gailcarsonlevine says:
Sami–Please look at my post of June 9, 2010. If you have more questions after that, just ask, but please be as specific as you can.
Wendy–I'm adding your questions to my list.
Hannah says:
I have to say, the dog is absolutely adorable!
Angie says:
@F and @April: I agree about PRINCESS ACADEMY. I feel the same way about Shannon Hale's THE GOOSE GIRL. I am drawn in by the beautiful writing and characters and don't mind at all that the main action doesn't really begin for awhile.
It definitely does seem to depend on how invested the readers are in the characters themselves to determine whether or not it matters when the action truly begins. If I am interested enough in the characters then I'm not at all bothered by how far into the book the plot starts to really unfold.
I have a question. While writing a first draft, I find myself constantly having new ideas for the plot that require me to go back and change several details. This becomes bothersome the further into the story I am, and it also worries me that I will lose some of the original integrity of the story the more I do this. What if, after changing a ton of details and scenes to accommodate a new idea, I realize that my grand new idea actually doesn't work at all? Then I need to go back and change those scenes back, but will most likely lose a lot of my original work in the process.
As much as I try to plan my plot out ahead of time, I am still at heart an organic sort of writer; I discover the story as I move along. How do I keep from ruining my story as I come up with fresh ideas?
(Reggie is adorable, by the way! I loved the pics 🙂
gailcarsonlevine says:
Angie–I'm adding your question.
F says:
@Angie: I keep changing the story as some ideas fail or I get new ideas. So for my first novel, I started with it being a fantasy with considerable emphasis on my MC's grey eyes (key to magic) and a magic-doing-guy called Magus (original, yeah). And about half-way through, he disappeared and nobody cared my MC had grey eyes. And by the end, she'd also acquired this ring which was a major major part of the plot but only appeared in the last ten pages.
So yeah. XD
And now, for my rewrite, I have the basic plot as the same, but the characters and their relationships are all different…so yeah, stories constantly morph. Rather than adding the changes in scenes further back, just incorporate them in the current scene and, if that doesn't work, drop them for later scenes. OF course, that's not a very good way to go, but it depends on whether you view this as a first draft which will have to be rewritten or first draft to be edited. 🙂
Grace says:
Thanks so much for answering my question!
I realize after reading this post that I do need to kill some darlings. I was reading over my project the other day and realized that I had a lot of useless scenes centered around a certain character because I am going to make his dissapear later in my project almost until the end of the book and I wanted the reader to get to know and like him so they care about him going missing when it happens…but I think I went a little over-kill on his character development…
But I recently reached the main conflict at about 30K (which will probably be much reduced after editing). I sent the beginning to a couple of friends and said "please read this and tell me if it drags" so we'll see what they say.
The timing of this post is quite ironic, I'm going to a writer's conference this weekend and I'm taking a class called "Keeping Them Hooked" so we'll see what the teacher has to say about my beginning as well.
This post will come in handy, though, when I start editing my beginning for real.
I couldn't help but notice, Ms. Levine that you said you're a plot-driven writer, but I have to say that I adore your characters (not that your plots lag by any means, but I've always found your characters quite charming).
As for those pictures of Reggie, oh my gosh! He's such a cutie! Makes me wish my dog was still that young and small…
Well, thanks for the post, Ms. Levine. 🙂
F says:
^Your comment reminds me, Grace, that I was just flicking through Ella Enchanted yesterday and fell in love with it all over again. It has all the elements of a classic fairytale that I LOVE, and I wish there were more books like it! I loved the ball scenes! 😀
madeofbooks says:
This post is helpful to more people than just Grace! I've been struggling recently with the same thing and I am very grateful that you took the time to reply to Grace's question.
Thank you so much!
welliewalks says:
Goodness, your dog is adorable! It makes me remember getting my own dogs! Thank you for those! He is very cute!!
I have a question. Do you need a college education to get published? I mean will publishers look at your piece better if you have a college degree? I'm a teen (not old enough to think too seriously about college quite yet) but I've been thinking about it. Would an education at a community college be good enough for publishers?
@Wendy- I think you need to ask yourself what the reader needs to know. Anything that the reader doesn't need to know, doesn't really need to be included right away.
@ Angie- Remember that you don't have to use every idea you get on the story you are working on currently. Store ideas in an Idea Notebook. Also, everytime you really do feel like you need to change the plot, save what you had before. Then, in a new doc, change what you need to change and continue. This way you'll be able to have all the drafts and decide what things you like best. I'm also like you, I usually discover my story as I go too.
Hope this helps! xxx
Jenna Royal says:
In the story I'm currently editing, I started the first draft really slowly. I had only the vaguest of ideas of where I was going to end up, but it served its purpose of getting me introduced to my characters and plot. The current beginning is way faster – the action starts by page three. 🙂 I'm a little worried it's starting too fast, but I'm trying to balance it out with details and introductions to slow it down a little.
@Angie – I'm the kind of person who changes a lot as they write. Usually, I start out with only a vague idea of where I'm going, and I end up with an ending that doesn't match at all! I wouldn't worry about rewriting your beginning repeatedly as you go along. I once attended a writing workshop where the person leading it said that you shouldn't edit a thing until your entire first manuscript is done. While I don't follow that rule strictly, it's good to keep in mind, because you're not going to get anything done if you keep going back and redoing the beginning! Just make the necessary edits to whatever comes next and when you revise, alter the beginning to fit your ending.
gailcarsonlevine says:
Thanks for the Reggie appreciation and for the kind words about ELLA ENCHANTED!
Nadia says:
Hi Ms. Levine,
I am a big fan of your works!! I have read and reread all of you books, among them Ella Enchanted, Fairest, Ever, The Two Princess of Bamarre, all the the fairy tails, and I loved every single one! I especially enjoyed Fairest. The idea is so amazing.
I truly hope you continue writing more books similar to Ella and Fairest. I love that magical, princess style. You haven't come out with a book like that since Ever! Please, write more! I have reread Fairest 11 times (I'm not making this up) and I yearn for a new title!
Also, I was wondering if you have an email at which fans can correspond with you?
-Nadia
Charlotte says:
@Angie
That, my friend, is exactly my problem too. I think I've mentioned this before, but the biggest project I'm working on has been with me for FIVE YEARS (and 4 months, but who's counting?). Nothing looks the same as it did in the beginning–names changed, appearances changed, the entire terrain of my book's universe shifted, and I went from plotline to plotline to plotline. The thing is, I don't think that's completely a bad thing. I'm not actually that worried about preserving the integrity of the original story, because I trust myself and my abilities and therefore know that the new idea has more integrity, makes more sense, is more interesting, and will be a lot more fun to write.
The thing is, at some point you have to stop and stick with what you've got. That (I hope!) is where I am now. I'm more confident in what I've got now than I ever have been. Now all I have to do is finish. Yay!
Serious says:
Hello Ms Levine!
This is my first comment, although I've been following this blog since September 2009. I've found your advice and insight very helpful, even if the problems being discussed are not the ones I am usually faced with. I stumbled across this site through a link on another website without having an inkling of who you were. Since then, I've read Ella Enchanted, Fairest and the Two Princesses of Bamarre, and love Ella Enchanted best of them all.
My current problem is getting all my characters into one setting. The main conflict is already in action, and the subplots are too, but my main characters are divided. I need them all in one location to bring the conflict to a head, and I'm not sure how to do that, because it’s essential that they remain separated for the first few pages for me to explain their situations. Also, I've made the barriers that separate them so solid that I don't have a way around them, and the unpredictability factor vanishes when I try. Help?
I hope that wasn't too vague. Thank you very much.
-Kasturi
Also, sorry if there was a double post, I didn't see it appear the first time I tried.
April says:
@welliewalks
No, your education in and of itself does not matter. What school you went to, what college you did (or didn't) attend, what grades you got, etc… none of that matters when you're trying to get published.
What matters is that you can write well and tell a good story. An education can help you with that–taking some writing courses will help improve your writing skills. But the degree itself won't make much of a difference in getting published.
Of course, this is assuming you mean publishing fiction. Non-fiction has a whole 'nother set of rules.
gailcarsonlevine says:
Welliewalks–I agree with April, with one addition. College has other benefits. You learn what you wouldn't know otherwise, and the degree may come in handy for finding a job while you're waiting for your publishing career to take off. However, community college may do quite well by you, job-wise.
April says:
Oh, I definitely agree with Gail. I was just discussing education in how it relates directly to publishing.
But yes, if you are able, I recommend going to college… regardless of whether or not you are a writer (it benefits most people), or if the college is a community college or a university (there are many factors involved in deciding which is right for you).
It provides life experience, learning to be responsible for yourself (it's different than high school, especially if you don't live at home), a degree to attain a job, opportunities for community service or to see the world, etc. It will help flesh you out as a person.
Sarah Elizabeth says:
Dear Gail,
I love reading your books so much. I have been writing since I first read Ella Enchanted almost ten years ago. And I am so glad to have found that you started writing this blog, it's wonderful reading your posts.
I am a college student in NYC, but I am staying to take an extra class at the college this summer. Do you have an favorite writing classes in the city? I would love to take a writing class this summer, while I'm here! 🙂
patti.mallett_pp says:
I am wondering how long it's going to take me to read all of the past posts.
Hmmmmmmm. (Better get started.)
patti.mallett_pp says:
Thanks, Sami, for asking the question again, about writing love stories. It allowed me to track down that wonderful Blog post. Even for those of us who have a love story, it's usually not worthy of a "fiction story." We must allow our daydreams space to breathe grow, and then be brave enough to let them live out in the open where others will see them. Gail's wonderful examples/tips/illustrations are exactly what we, and many others who struggle with this same issue, needed to know!
gailcarsonlevine says:
Sarah Elizabeth–I don't have a suggestion. Sorry! My favorite writing teacher, whose workshop at The New School I took for many years, retired a few years ago.