A bunch of questions followed my September 29th post about accepting writing criticism. Chantal wrote, I’m running into the problem of who to give my novel to for reading. I know I need some outside opinions before it’s complete, but I’m wary about just handing out my novel to everyone who offers, even if I do know them. Do you have any advice?
And Erin Edwards offered these excellent suggestions: A good question to ask a prospective and willing reader is what kind of books they like to read. Ask if they like books that you think are similar to yours in genre, tone, and/or age group, etc.
Writing requires enormous patience, as we all know. Finding the right critics sometimes calls for patience too. It’s like moving to a new town or a new school. For a while you try out friends before you find ones who suit. Of the people who’ve offered to read your novel, you may just have to guess about who is best equipped for the task. If your first readers don’t work out, try other people. You may be surprised at who can help you.
Going through someone else’s novel is a big job. If your reader isn’t experienced at criticism, he may not realize the complexity of the undertaking and may not be able to finish. I don’t think you should be angry at such a failure or think that it reflects badly on either the person or your book. Just give it to someone else.
You may need to have a discussion ahead of time with the person or people. What does he think is involved? Has he ever done this before? What would you like to know from him? How specific would you like him to be? How fragile are you when it comes to your writing? You probably don’t want to give away much about your book, because you don’t want to influence the reading. Of course, if you’ve written a novel in experimental literature and the sentences don’t have ordinary meaning, you should prepare him, but if you’ve written a coming of age novel, for example, you needed say that, and if you think it falls apart from Chapter Fifteen to Chapter Eighteen, don’t mention this. You want to see if your reader has that response too without being told ahead of time. Naturally, you can ask afterward.
Also, you can start small and give your reader a chapter and see how that goes. If all is well, you can give her the whole book.
When I was starting out I had the advantage of living in New York City where one can hardly step outside without tripping over a writer. I formed critique groups with writing class members and members of the Society of Children’s Book Writers and Illustrators (SCBWI). The groups kept falling apart, and I kept forming new ones. A couple of years passed before I found a group that stayed together for a few years until it, too, disintegrated. But for a while I was blessed. Most of us were writing novels so we tolerated lots of pages from one another.
Even if you don’t live in a city, you can benefit from SCBWI, if you’re old enough to join (eighteen and up). Your regional chapter will help you find or form a critique group.
If you’re under eighteen, you might see if a librarian or an English or Creative Writing teacher would look at your work. The first readers of my very first book were two children’s librarians, who happened not to be great at criticism but who were fabulous at encouragement. You also might join your school newspaper or literary magazine to find other writers.
A few days ago I listened to a radio program about frenemies. I suggest you not give your book to a frenemy.
At the time I wrote that very first book, I lived on the same street as a published children’s book writer. I hardly knew her, but I prevailed upon her to read my effort – I didn’t realize what an imposition that was. When she gave the book back to me, she said, “You’re not a writer.” Curiously I wasn’t devastated. She did think one little bit in the book was funny, and she asked why I wanted to write when I could draw; there were my pencil drawings of birds in the book. I discovered that she would much rather have been an illustrator than a writer, and somehow that took the sting out of her words.
If you can afford it, there are free-lance editors you can pay to look at your work and guide you. If you know someone in publishing, that person may be able to give you a name, but they also advertise in writers’ magazines. A good one can be enormously helpful, but of course be careful. Look at the website. Ask for references and follow up.
I have space in the post for another question on this topic. More than one of you had the same question as Silver the Wanderer: …how do you know when someone is being honest with their criticism? Those who have read my work are really enthusiastic about it, but I’m not sure if that’s just because I’m young. Compliments are always nice, but I really need honest feedback. I think people might just be telling me it’s good so as to not hurt my feelings…
First of all, the compliments may be true. Your readers may be very impressed.
Or you may not have found the right readers. They may not have a clue about how to evaluate a piece of writing. Enthusiasm, which may be genuine, may be all they have to offer.
Or they may not want to hurt your feelings. That’s possible. They may also be afraid that you’ll be angry, and they may be protecting themselves from a confrontation.
Which is why it is best if possible to find writers, because writers understand that writers need criticism.
Alas, dishonesty can be nasty as well as nice, and it can be anything in between. A reader may be feeling rivalrous and may not want to say how much he liked what you wrote. He may not be big enough to point out the terrific aspects of your story. He may even be villainous enough to name flaws your story doesn’t have. I haven’t experienced this, but a writer buddy once later confessed that she had given me story suggestions out of motives that were outside the story. Nothing terrible had happened as a result, and I appreciated her belated candor. At the time I had no idea.
So you may not be able to tell if a response is honest, and you may be hurt by a response, even by true criticism that you learn from. The most important thing is to concentrate on your work, not on your feelings, and how to make the writing better.
Here’s a prompt: Three writer friends get together to discuss one another’s work. Write the scene. Invent snippets of the stories of each one. I said not to show your writing to a frenemy, but two of your characters can be frenemies. If you like, you can make up the most awful critique session imaginable, or you can be milder, but you need some tension. You can be funny or serious or even tragic. You can go into fantasy; the writers don’t have to be human.
Next week, another post about critiquing. If you have more questions on the subject, please send them along.
Have fun, and save what you write!
Erin Edwards says:
I can't wait to read this new post! But meanwhile I had something to add for Maddie's question at the end of the last post.
@ Maddie: To add to what Gail Carson Levine said – I know I've seen answers posted to this question on editor and agent blogs. In any case, editors and agents often talk about their background on their blog or in interviews. (I specifically recall seeing this on the Pub Rants blog when they were interviewing assistants.) Some of their backgrounds might surprise you; I wish I had been able to trace the paths of different routes to a job when I was in college, so I wanted to mention that way to research it.
A summer job working in a bookstore might be another good place to start as I recall that many agents/editors got their start there. Or, if your age won't allow that yet, volunteer in your library.
Jane says:
I have that problem too. I let my family read my books, and they love them. But they love them too much, even when I know something is wrong, they are not able to tell me what it is because they think everything I do is good.
On the other hand, if I show it to my writer friends I can't trust that either, because they write in a completely different genre than me.
I've found that for me, the best critics are distant relatives. I gave it to my great aunt, and she liked it, but she wasn't too afraid of offending me to point out some flaws.
RichLayers says:
This reminded me of a great post by Shannon Hale on how to train your friend/spouse/reader, if you don't have any handy writer friends to look over your work:
http://oinks.squeetus.com/2010/07/how-to-be-a-writers-friend-or-spouse.html
I still think writers make the best critiquers (not critics!) but if you can't find any, that post might help, too!
Chantal says:
Thanks for the great advice!
Tai Tai says:
Thanks for the advice!
Elizabeth says:
I agree with Chantal and Silver the Wanderer that it is hard to find someone who will critique your work and do a good job with it. I pretty much only have my family that I give it to right now since my friends are busy or not much into reading. I'm not sure if they think the story is good really or not, but I'm not sure they really know what they're doing (I'm sure I don't either) since this is a first for us both. I would like to give it to a critique group, but when I looked online I couldn't find any around here. Do you have any suggestions on that since I'm only 13 and it's hard for me to get around?
Silver the Wanderer says:
Thanks for answering my question! I think I will just have to tell whoever's reading my work upfront that I want them to be honest. I can take criticism as long as it's founded on something. I like to think of myself as a good editor, but I really don't know how skilled I am at judging my work and looking at it from an editor's standpoint. That's why a second opinion (or third, or fourth, or fifth) is important to me.
@Elizabeth, is there any place in your area that offers writing classes or workshops? I've found that you should take any opportunity you have to learn more about writing and collect feedback. I took a risk by attending a workshop a couple months back. I admit, it was sort of frightening because the rest of the class was all adults. And they all read my work (eek!). But I got some very good feedback, and a week or two later I was approached by a lady from the workshop who recognized me. She just happened to be the leader of a writer's group, and she invited me to join! Long story short, take any opportunity you come across, and it will pay off! 🙂
April says:
"When I was starting out I had the advantage of living in New York City where one can hardly step outside without tripping over a writer."
Haha, I love this image!
"I suggest you not give your book to a frenemy."
Very good advice that needs to be mentioned more often.
For those who are high school and up, you can try http://www.critiquecircle.com (it's free).
April says:
Maddie asked in the last post: "Does anyone know what it takes to become an editor?"
How old are you? If you're in middle school (or younger), the best way to aim for that goal is to read, read, read, and read. And did I mention read? Try all kinds of books, not just the ones you typically read. Ask your librarian for suggestions, and then take them.
Focus on books that are written well, but if you read one that isn't written well, pay attention as to why. Notice when a character sits, and then suddenly is walking out of the room (the author forgot to say they got up!). Notice when someone's dialogue sounds wooden. Notice when a sentence is confusing because the author didn't put in a comma. But also notice when the author writes something that puts a very vivid image in your head, or makes you laugh or cry. That's good writing! How did they do that?
If you're in high school, continue to read and develop your critical eye. But now you'll want to add any classes that focus on the craft of writing, on grammar, and on literature. Study hard in English class. It might help to take your language requirements in Latin, but it's not required (I didn't). Join any after-school writing clubs. Sign up for the newspaper and the yearbook (they teach you the publishing process, and how to work on a deadline).
Critical reading makes you aware that there is a puzzle made of many pieces. Studying the language will show you how to fit those pieces together (and spot when pieces shouldn't be together).
Erin's suggestions of working in a bookstore or at the library are great! Some other ideas are to tutor English classes, or offer to edit school papers for a fee. It'll give you a chance to practice making someone else's work shine (self-editing is very different from editing another's work, since it's easy to want to rewrite their stuff instead of keeping it in their voice).
However, NEVER write someone's paper for them. People will try to get you to do their work (they'll write a bad paper and want you to "help" them rewrite it, for example), but you should never do it. Even if they pay you.
In college, you'll want to aim for a degree in English, or a related field like creative writing. I majored in professional writing at Taylor University (http://www.taylor.edu/academics/acaddepts/writing/). Keep reading! The more you read, the better your editor's eye will be. And don't be afraid to write to publishers (politely, of course) when you catch a mistake. And yes, you will find them. 🙂
While you're in college, you'll want to intern at a publishing house if you can (or a magazine or newspaper, depending on your focus). You'll have better luck at smaller presses where they don't have enough hands to go around, though they may not be able to pay you (some internships aren't paid). The other benefit of a small press is that it'll be easier to observe various jobs to see what kind of editor you'd like to be—acquisitions editor, production editor, associate editor, copy editor, etc.
When you've got your degree and you're looking for a job, look for editorial assistant positions. Those are entry-level positions that will get your foot in the door so you can work your way up.
If you're lucky, you might be able to snag a production editor position, but it depends on the company and what they have their production editors do (they used to be the people who would make sure everything was aligned and spaced right, but with the age of computers, those task are disappearing… so production editors now do different things depending on the publisher).
Just be prepared for the fact that you won't be making much money! Being an editor is hard (but satisfying) work. But like teachers, they don't get paid very much and get very little recognition. You have to be in it for the love of words and story (and grammar), or you won't be very happy there.
Hope that helps!
C says:
Thanks for the great advice and glimpses into your writing/critique background! 🙂
I've only shown my work to a couple of family members so far – one gave mainly constructional and grammatical critisism, and the other spotted my one and only big continuancy mistake, and gave comments about the feel of the story, and the character development.
They both said that the first chapter didn't exactly pull them in, but when they continued to read, they, especially the latter one, were completely in the book's world. The latter one actually read it all in two days because it was so exciting, as she said.
While I do have a problem believing some of the good things they said about the book, I was there for a few hours to see her immersed in the book, and I saw her enthusiasm, so that part I believe.
I don't suggest you're there to watch over someone while they read, though. I'd hate it if someone was staring at me while I tried to concentrate on something like that. 😀
gailcarsonlevine says:
April–Thank you so much for the great advice for Maddie and anyone else who's considering editing as a career!
Did you try my husband's advice about Safari?
Do any of you know of online forums for Elizabeth where she can post work and get feedback, ones where people aren't brutal with their criticism?
Erin Edwards says:
If Elizabeth is writing YA or MG she might try Verla Kay's Blueboards http://www.verlakay.com/boards/index.php. They have special rules for joining if you are a minor that are posted at top of the page – which I think is a sign of a board well managed. I have never been on the critique forums, but around the rest of the board the writers are extremely nice and supportive.
Grace says:
Awesome post, Ms. Levine.
I have the forutune of having a really good writing buddy, that is always honest but never mean. It took me a while to find just the right writing partener, but I'm glad I have her.
(Kind of repeating what other people said but…)If anyone wonders where to get a good partener, go to a writers' group. It doesn't necessarily have to be a critique group, but go to a writers' group. I went to one and even though my writers' group doesn't specifically critique each other's work, they paired me up with a girl who needed a writing partener and that's how I got my writing buddy. (Even though they call it a "mentoring program" since I'm the youngest in the group by 11 years XD) So, anyway, I hope everyone finds great writing parteners, because someone who you can talk to about writing and who can both take and give critisism well, is a blessing.
Thanks for the post, Ms. Levine, 'twas awesome.
Elizabeth says:
@Silver the Wanderer
As far as I know there aren't any writing classes around here. I'll have to go to the library soon and see if they know anything about that.
@Erin Edwards
Thanks for the link! I'll definitely check that out!
April says:
Gail, I emptied the cache in Safari, but Ella Enchanted still gives me just a question mark instead of an audio file.
gailcarsonlevine says:
April–Alas, we're stumped. Sorry!
F says:
I'd love to be an editor, and think that I have a good critical eyes…but alas, I'm not majoring in anything remotely writing-related.
About more forums where one can post their work…*coughcough* After November, the NaNoWriMo website has a whole new forum opened up /just for critiques/. You can have anything critiqued, your November novel or what not.
In fact, it was through that forum I critiqued three novels and a short story. Nice experience, and I can personally say that it's hard. I remember a few instances I subconsciously passed over the truth (this is boring), and tried to focus on the good aspects of the story…alongside other useful critiques, of course. 😛 It is hard to be blunt-truthful (which I wasn't, or that might have killed the writer, heh, something I do NOT want), but I try not 'fix this, this needs working' only, OR praise-only.
April says:
It's okay, I can listen to it in my other browsers. 🙂
Mya says:
Great post! I don't actually show my work to anyone, I guess I'm a pretty shy about it, unless they are writers too, but none of my friends or family are into books in the first place. Do you have some tips about self-critic and check?
@April: I was wondering about the website you mentioned. How would you know if there were no frenemies out there critiquing your work? (love that term!)
@F: Lol, I actually seriously considered editing as a profession too. But I'm also hoping to get into something totally unrelated to writing.=)
gailcarsonlevine says:
Mya–My post of November 18, 2009, is about revision, and you may find it helpful. And I'm continuing this criticism thread, so I'm adding your question to my list for this.
April says:
Mya, I'll let Gail handle it. 🙂
Jill says:
I think my problem with showing my work with other people is not that I am shy exactly but there is a side of me that I show to everyone, a side that I show to people close, and then that deep side that I keep to myself. When I write it is like letting that deep side out for a moment. I am always a little worried to show my writing to other people because I have horrid nightmares of them seeing that side of me and laughing or never seeing me the same again.
Jill says:
I have just decided to go ahead and ask my complicated question that has been bugging me for a very long time now.
I am writing a story about revenge. This girl is getting revenge for her family. Her whole family was killed during a civil war in her kingdom (her family was in power ahe was the princess). Everyone except her brother was killed so she and her brother are working together for revenge actually.
But anyway I had asked a long time ago about how to start this story and I finally decided on telling the basic story of the civil war in the beginning, going on with the story when she is older and working for revenge and filling in the details of the civil war with flashbacks.
So the actaul question is: How can I make the reader truly mourn for the girl's family with her? I definitly want them killed off in the beginning. I have fallen in love with her family during all my planning and the fact I based them off of my own loved ones(living and deceased) so I know I am mourning for them but how can I make sure the reader at least feels for the main character and not just think she is a drama queen who needs to get over the fact she isn't in power anymore?
P.S. I read over the killing character topic and it didn't help
April says:
Jill, for a reader to care whether a character dies or not, they have to love the character first.
Since in your story the family dies at the beginning, consider showing their personalities in your flashbacks. As time goes on (and the reader learns more about these characters), they'll grow to love them and mourn with your MC.
gailcarsonlevine says:
Mya–As I understand it, a frenemy is a person one has a complicated relationship with, a friend who sometimes behaves like an enemy. A frenemy can't be a stranger, so someone on a writing forum could be mean, but not a frenemy. No guarantees against meanness, but if someone is mean, others may leap to your defense.
Jill–I keep thinking I posted about this, but I can't find it, so I'm adding your question to my list. In the meanwhile, April's suggestions sound excellent.
Erin Edwards says:
@ Jill – I find that reading about people in history, both nonfiction and fiction, can help me flesh out characters, which might help both with shaping your main characters personality and the deceased family members memories. You might try reading about the French Revolution (Marie Antoinette's daughter was the lone survivor in her family) and/or the holocaust. Also, there is a legend that Anastasia was the lone survivor of the Russian royal family and you might look for novels based on that.
Erin Edwards says:
@ Jill – One last piece of advice because I know many of GCL's blog readers a minors – which is wonderful! – if you are not an adult, historical novels can get pretty graphic and/or racy. Check with an adult about the books you plan to read.
In any case, whenever I start studying a new subject I find children's non-fiction a great place to start. They do a great job of summarizing things.
Mya says:
@Gail Carson Levine: Thank you! I remember that post now, on revision, I will check it out.
Mysterygirl123 says:
@Jill Try reading Anne of green gables. This is a good example of reader/character love. Notice that every time a character gets hurt, makes a mistake or dies, you'll be upset, maybe even cry! When you kill a character early in a book, you have to show how kind or important to the main character(s) they were. Also, you need to make the reader love and want to protect the main character. For example, if the main character is unkind and bratty, no one will love her, but if she is cute and pouty, lots of people will.
Also, I have a question. I've started to love and protect my character so,so,so much, but I know something (else) bad needs to happen for the story to work. How do I get over that?
Rose says:
Mysterygirl – I think that sometimes we have to let bad things happen to our characters. Think of it this way: if nothing bad ever happened to _us_, think of how much of our inner strengths and weaknesses would never come out. We'd never develope perseverance or learn better from mistakes. And everyone else would envy us our consistent good luck!
I don't think that loving and protecting your character should always get in the way of having bad things happen. I love my characters too, but sometimes they mess up, or people around them mess up, and they get hurt because of it. I think that the best thing we can do for them sometimes is let them fight their own battles. Not to be needlessly cruel to them, but to let them work through hardships bravely (or not so).
As a reader, I like to see characters conquering their troubles, and as an author, I think it makes for a much better story. And again as a reader…I get more worried about the character if I think something really bad may happen to them….
Just offering my thoughts, and hope it helps.
gailcarsonlevine says:
Mysterygirl123–I've added your question to my list.
Maddie says:
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about being an editor- it really helped! I was just curious because I know that everyone wants to be a writer, but no one ever talks about being an editor!
Thanks again!
P.S. This post was very helpful as well, thanks Mrs. Levine!
Brittney Nicole Ludington says:
Hey Mrs.Gail Carson Levine,
My name is Brittney. I am nineteen years old and I started writing when I was in the sixth grade. My first story I ever wrote was on a pack of wolves. I never got to finish it because I lost it in a move to a new house.
You have inspired me s much as a writer and I can't help but to thank you so much for all that you have done as one. I right now am reading your book, Writing Magic and it has been a huge help so far.
I am currently working on three books at the moment. I have some ideas in place for some and I have chapters written for others. I was wondering if you wouldn't mind reading over a chapter of my book, The Light Chronicles. I know you must be very busy but I would really appreciate it.
Thank you so much if you can help.
love britt
<3
I have a blog that tells people about my books if you would like to check it out.