Madame Red Pencil, the Editor

Before I start the regular post, and in case you missed it, on the website there’s now a color sketch of the cover for A Tale of Two Castles.  In your comments after my post about covers, many of you expressed a preference for painted covers, and that’s what this is.

Also, I’ll be signing in Kingston, New York, this Saturday and in Fort Thomas, Kentucky in November.  If you’re nearby, check out the details on the website.

Last week I  wrote about this question by Erin Edwards: How do you cope with revision requests/suggestions, or did you never have a problem with them?  But I didn’t get to her second question:  Do you find that they were easier or harder to take after you got a contract or had a book published?

Before I had my first contract, when I was sending manuscripts out, most of my criticism came from the teacher I mentioned last week, Bunny Gabel, and the writers in my critique group.  But occasionally an actual editor would send a suggestion along with a rejection.  If the editor went to the trouble of giving advice, I took this as an invitation to revise and resend – if the advice felt reasonable and seemed a good fit for my story.  Way back then I had total freedom: the editor certainly wasn’t eagerly waiting for a revision.

In every case, when I revised and resent, the manuscript was rejected again.  Further suggestions might be made, with less enthusiasm, and I might revise and resend again.  This wasn’t a fast process.  If I was fixing a novel, revising would take at least a month, and the response always took many months to arrive.  But with the exception of the picture book I described last week, I always felt that I had improved my story.

However, although I had no success, some of my writing friends did.  They established relationships with editors, understood what was wanted, and were rewarded with contracts.

Eventually I did get to work with editors, and of course there are differences.  When a criticism comes from another writer or from a friend, I have context.  If I’m in a critique group, I know my critique buddies pretty well.  I’ve read their stories and seen how they react to other writers’ work.  I’ve experienced their strengths and their blind spots.  When a critique buddy offers a criticism I usually know how to understand it.  Almost the same was true of Bunny.  Although I never saw her writing, I did watch her response to my classmates’ material.

With an editor, much of that is missing.  Usually we have available to read only editorial letters and emails.  The editor – let’s call her Madame Red Pencil – may never have written fiction as an adult – and can still be a marvelous editor.  We can’t tell how she evaluates other authors’ work, only our own.  If, for example, she hates flashbacks, everyone’s flashbacks not just ours, we won’t know unless she tells us.

In both cases, there’s a relationship to preserve.  I don’t want to lose a friend over criticism or to reach an impossible place with an editor.  And with an editor, even if there is a contract, she can decide not to publish the book or that she can’t bear to work with me ever again.

Naturally some editors are better than others, and certainly there needs to be a good fit between the editor and the writer.  In general, Madame Pencil won’t acquire a manuscript unless she loves it.  This is because she has to read it again and again during the editing, and she has to be its booster in the publishing house.  So the most important relationship ingredients are there from the start.  She adores your work, and she’s primed to adore you because you created this marvel.  And, most likely, you’re primed to feel good about her because she gets you.  Maybe she’s the only one who noticed how gradually and carefully you built up the cruelty of your villain.

With luck, her edits will be even more helpful than the suggestions of your critique pals.  It’s her job to crawl inside your story, to see it from within itself.  Then it’s her job to grasp it as a whole too, and also to figure out how it can become its best incarnation, and to present her ideas in a way that you understand, and if you don’t get it right away, it’s her job to rephrase.  When all this happens, yes, an editor’s criticism is easier to take.

When I first handed in the draft that eventually became The Fairy’s Return, my editor wrote in her editorial letter that my heroine was a buffoon, and she didn’t mean it in a good way.  Fortunately or unfortunately, I knew she was right.  Luckily she had a suggestion that showed me what to do.

The editorial letter I got in response to Fairest was eighteen single-spaced pages.  In it my Madame Red Pencil told me to cut entire chapters.  I reacted as I usually do to a long editorial letter – with fright.  Could I do what was being asked of me?

Editors don’t have all the answers.  Sometimes Madame Pencil can see a problem but not how to solve it.  Or she may make a suggestion that doesn’t suit my approach.  When I wrote The Two Princesses of Bamarre, my editor and I both knew that the beginning was a mess, and neither of us had a clue as to how to straighten it out.  Eventually I got it on my own.

By now I’ve worked with a bunch of editors, some more gifted than others.  The worst edit – absolutely useless – I’ve ever received was the most enthusiastic.  This editor wrote Ooh! and Ah! and Eek! here and there in the margins, and that was it.  The only suggestion she made was wrong.  Sometimes I have complete certainty, and this time I had it.  When I explained my reason, she agreed.  This reminds me of the comments from some of you on the last post that friends give you only positive feedback, and you don’t know whether or not to believe it or how to proceed.

But even if the overly enthusiastic editor hadn’t agreed with me about her sole edit, I wouldn’t have done it.  Madame Pencil’s edits are suggestions, and this is understood by both of us.  Ultimately the book is yours, and you have final say.

My editor and I initially disagreed about The Wish.  She wanted a different book and I wanted the book I’d written.  For a little while it looked like she was going to reject it.  In the end she didn’t, and she edited it, and I took her edits seriously and worked to understand and use them as much as I could –

Which is my policy in general.  In minor matters if I disagree with an edit, I just don’t do it, but in major matters, I explain and discuss, and sometimes I can be persuaded, and sometimes the editor can be.  Our interests are exactly the same.  Your critique pals and mine and Madame Red Pencil all want the book to fulfill its potential and find lots of readers.

No prompts again, but save what you’re writing, and have fun!

  1. Another great post on one of my favorite topics. I try to keep the fact that writers want their faults explained to them in mind when I edit, which is easy enough for me. But I've have teachers that tell me something is confusing in a paper or story I've turned in, and they sometimes don't get any more descriptive than that. I'd rather have a lot of explanatory negative comments on my writing than a few, "ooh shiny glittery awesome loved it" comments; any day.

    I like "Madam Red Pencil", by the way. I usually just think of editing as "The Red Pencil Of Doom", but no longer. Yay for personification!

  2. First off, I just want to say that I LOVE the cover for A Tale of Two Castles! Is that really the sketch? If you hadn't said something, I would have thought it was the final cover. Or is it? It looks finished to me! (Yes, I am very fond of painted covers. :D)

    It's very interesting to hear about the editing process. The editorial letter for Fairest was eighteen, pages?! I've heard they're long, but wow! But you're right, I'd rather have eighteen pages of helpful criticism than a hundred pages of nothing but compliments. But I do like compliments as long as they're paired with lots of suggestions too.

    "Madame Red Pencil"…haha, I love it! That's my new term for "editor". 😉

    Thanks for the post!

  3. I can't believe its a sketch, it looks amazing!
    Great post Mrs Levine, but now I'm wondering if I ought to keep saying that, because although its true, every post is amazing and insightful lol, it still rather feels like the "oohs" and "awesomes" Alex Newman mentions. But I doubt you at least Mrs Levine, would like advice from a complete amateur.=)

    I always did think the editor was an almost unreachable persona, it was surprisng to find out that you can establish contacts with them. Wouldn't they tire of the many wanna-be authors, knocking on their doors?

    Its funny, the image of a grumpy looking woman clutching a pen and dressed in red is what comes into my mind when I think of editor. And now we can call her that.=D

  4. Wow! So much has changed in the past few weeks. I stay off the Internet for just a little bit, and look what I've missed! 😉

    First of all, I love your Web site. I had a great time going through and reading every page. I particularly appreciated the "Gail said" tabs for each book, and how in depth your bio was. And I was so happy to see all of the covers for each book! It surprised me to see the foreign translation covers. That was fun. 🙂 I've just moved to Japan, so I'll have to look for the Japanese Ella Enchanted.

    I did have problems loading the little sound bites on the audio book page, though. Some of them would come up as question marks. If I refreshed the page, some of the question marks would be proper sound bars, but then others would be question marks (that were fine before). Perhaps it's too much to load all at once (maybe make an audio tab for each book, instead of an audio page for all the books)? Or maybe it's just my computer (in which case, ignore my suggestion).

    I also noticed some of the tabs jump up on the video page. But they still work, so it's just a cosmetic issue.

    The pictures of you and the house were great, too. I liked peeking into your life a little bit. 🙂 And I didn't realize you and your husband have been married for so long! That's wonderful. 😀

    And yes, the cover for A Tale of Two Castles is simply stunning. I *LOVE* it! I keep checking Amazon in hopes that it'll be available for pre-order soon. 🙂 If the hardcover has this painting, I'll definitely buy that! (I usually wait for paperback with most of my books.)

    As for today's post, this was interesting for me to read since I've been the assistant to Madame Red Pencil. Until this move we've just completed (my husband got a job working at an international school in Japan) I had been working in a national publishing company as an editorial assistant for the past two years.

    I'm used to wearing the editor's hat of "though my word is not law, you should take my suggestions seriously." Now that I'm working with other writers as an ordinary writer myself, it's hard to switch back to the "we're peers, and everything I say should be taken with a grain of salt" hat.

    You'd think it wouldn't be that hard. All it takes is wording my suggestions a little differently: Less "change this, because such-and-such doesn't work" and more "may I suggest this instead, since such-and-such doesn't seem to work well?" But old habits die hard. I'm trying, but it's tough to be extremely conscious of everything I say!

  5. Oh, and a quick question. The home page of your Web site shows a typed page of Ella Enchanted. Did you actually type it on that typewriter, or was the text Photoshopped in?

  6. Oh, dear. I feel like a spammer. Sorry! I've just missed chatting here each week and my thoughts have stockpiled.

    The library of the school we're at has a good number of your books, including the first Disney fairies book and Betsy Who Cried Wolf!, neither of which I've had the chance to read before. I enjoyed them very much! How did your sister feel to have a fairy named for her (Rani)? And whose idea was it to make the sheep talk in bubbles (yours, your editor's, or the illustrator's)?

    Okay, okay, I'm done now. Well, for now. I'm sure I'll be chatty next week, too. 😉

  7. Love, love, love the new cover! It looks like a book my girls will be eager to read.

    Those are really interesting insights into working with editors as well. Thank you.

    @April – Hi! I hope your move went smoothly. Do I remember correctly that you mentioned in another blog comment that you had lived in Japan before? My hubby was born on an AFB in Japan and my in-laws lived there for many years. I have visited, and the first images that come to mind are feeling like we were driving on the highway with toy-sized Tonka trucks, parking on the sidewalk, and gorgeous azaleas! They also had very elaborate vending machines for everything from soda to hot cups of noodles, and I hear those have even gotten fancier lately with fresh fruit and everything else under the sun. Okay, I feel like I hijacked the blog comments a bit here, but since you were feeling chatty and you just moved I wanted to say hi. 🙂

  8. Mya–It's always nice to hear you liked the post!

    Editors are not very available. The best place to meet them is at a writers' conference.

    April–I let my husband know the problems you had with the website. Thanks!

    Hope you enjoy living in Japan! You probably know there's an SCBWI chapter there. If your husband's school brings in children's book authors, I love to visit international schools.

    By the time I wrote ELLA I was using a computer, but I wrote my first picture book manuscripts on that machine.

    Rani has mixed feelings about being a character, although I asked her permission first.

    Scott Nash, the illustrator of BETSY WHO CRIED WOLF and BETSY RED HOODIE gave me the speech bubbles on the first book, and I wrote them in the original manuscript for the second. The words on the blackboard in BETSY WHO CRIED WOLF were written by Scott.

  9. @Erin: Yes, I grew up in Japan. 🙂 The school my husband works at is my Alma Mater, which I attended K-12. And your impressions of Japan are pretty accurate. I took a picture of a vending machine the other day that sold everything from slippers to cotton kimonos to adult diapers! (yes, all in the same machine) lol

    @Gail: My husband works in the IT department of the school so he won't be much help, but my aunt is the librarian. I'll see if I can pull some strings. 😉 Actually, what's interesting is that she's the one who introduced me to you, since she suggested Ella Enchanted to me when I was a student there.

    Thanks for answering my questions! I love how personal you are to your readers. I'll savor it while I can, since one day enough people will be reading your blog that you won't be able to respond to comments anymore (or it'll cut into your writing time, and we can't have that). 😉

    Two last things: In case it helps, I've been viewing your Web site via Safari 5.0.2. Also, you look lovely in your new photo. <3

  10. I bit late on commenting, I see, but I shall comment nonetheless.
    Very awesome post. I've always thought that if an author and an editor don't treat and feel the same way about a manuscript then its like two parents who have completely opposite views and parenting styles which could lead to a very disfunctional household.
    I think a lot of authors work mainly to please editors when they should work first to please themselves and the reader, and then the editor. But, after all Madame Red Pencil can be pretty intimidating. But I hope that every author can find a good editor someday.
    A Tale of Two Castles: definately want to read it now. The cover looks brilliant! Love Elodie, she looks so, I dunno, good on the cover. That's it, just plain good. In other words: the whole cover looks great!
    Thanks again for the post Ms. Levine!

  11. Mrs. Levine, I've been browsing your blog and wanted to express my appreciation. The first post I read was sent last summer when you mentioned your tour to Cali and SLC. Dang! I was in SLC when you were in Cali and flew to Cali just before you came to SLC. Hope you enjoyed your stay in Utah.
    I, also, attended the conference where you spoke in Provo, Utah, and enjoyed your presentation. Being a note taker, I took copious notes. Thank you for your presentation and for your blog. I'm looking for one of those "follow this blog" buttons but I'm terribly computer-challenged. Do you have one here somewhere?

  12. I was reading over your blog and I spotted you saying again about being able to become a full time author. What exactly does it take to do that? Publishing a lot of books and having your name be well known? I guess i am just wondering because that has been my dream for along time and i just don't know how to go about doing that!

  13. April–The audio should be okay now. And thanks for the compliment!

    k m kelly–If you go to the bottom of the blog home page and click on Subscribe to Posts and follow along, it's pretty easy.

    Jill–I'll write a post on the business side of writing. I'm adding your question to my list.

  14. Ms Levine-
    I know you wrote a post on writing romance, which is very helpful, but whenever I try to write it, my characters come out like cardboard cutouts. One reason, I think, is because I try to stay away from cliches too much. One of the most-used ones (and one of my least favorites) is where girl meets guy A, who's dark and dangerous, never knowing that guy B, who is safe, is in love with her. Guy A does something to make her realize what a loser he is, and how phenomenal guy B is. Do you have any suggestions for writing romance while staying (mostly) away from cliches? Thanks!

  15. That's funny, Alexandra…in my admittedly-small experience with romance stories, I've found it more likely that the girl goes off with Guy A after an angsty interview where she has to explain to Guy B how she "just can't think of him that way." But I agree. Both are…not my cup of tea. Frankly, I don't much like books where it's nothing but a romance, no matter what.

  16. Alexandra–I haven't written any books that are primarily romance. The first thing that popped into my mind, though, is: why do there have to be two guys? Why not only one? Then he won't be contrasted with someone, and the conflict can come from some other source. Or why not three guys? In any event, I think well-developed characters are the best defense against cliche.

  17. Hopefully you'll see this (I know it's at the end of the week). All of the audio books load now, expect Ella Enchanted. No matter how many times I refresh the window, it still is a question mark. But only in Safari!

    I tested it in Firefox and Chrome on the same computer, and it works in both. Perhaps this is something just to shrug off and say, "Oh well," but I thought I'd let you know.

  18. I have a question. I couldn't decide what I wanted to be when I get older if my life depended on it, but I know I want it to have to do with writing. Does anyone know what it takes to become an editor? (Madame Red Pencil! :D)

    Great post! It was very insight-bringing!

  19. April–This from my husband about the problem: "Tell her to clear the cache on the Safari browser and see if this helps. From the menu: Edit/Empty Cache."

    Also, April, you may be able to help Maddie with her question.

    Maddie–I'm not an expert on this, but I'd suggest you major in English in college. Many publishers and agents hire summer interns (some even pay), which gets you industry experience even before you graduate.

  20. I have a question that I've been wondering about for a while. I read books a lot and some of them I don't like the ending. It seems…unfinished. For example one book I just read they were going to get married and live on a manor near by but it didn't tell about them doing that in the book. I wanted it to continue. To tell their life after. I don't ever want to leave my book "Unfinished" but I'm afraid I might not ever stop writing one book! Any suggestions? Any help will be appreciated.

Leave a Reply

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.